Where I draw the line

Where I draw the line

This is a discussion on Where I draw the line within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This happened earlier this week here in Spokane, WA This happened at my bank a mile from my office: FBI releases bank robbery surveillance video ...

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Thread: Where I draw the line

  1. #1
    Member Array JeffMRC's Avatar
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    Where I draw the line

    This happened earlier this week here in Spokane, WA
    This happened at my bank a mile from my office:

    FBI releases bank robbery surveillance video - KHQ Right Now - News and Weather for Spokane and North Idaho |

    For the most part I've decided that I'll act to protect myself, family, friends, and others when I know the situation. However, I read either here or in a magazine that you have to decide at what point you will not let the BG get to. I agree that I will not let a BG take me to another room (backroom) or tie me up, or make me get on my knees or lay down. If it's just money or property they are after I don't think I'd act because those material things can be replaced and don't impact me and aren't worth me wasting my time in court for the slimebag. But I do know if I was at this place at this time he would not have made me/us move or tie us up. Seeing the quick ways these
    things go on some survellance videos I would have drawn, yelled a command then triple tap. Your comments?
    "I wish I would have done the hard things when they were easier to do."


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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Seeing the quick ways these
    things go on some survellance videos I would have drawn, yelled a command then triple tap. Your comments?


    So, if I understand you correctly.

    You are saying that if you yelled at the criminal actor to stop, and he did. You would then shoot him three times?

    What would you do if he didn't stop, shoot him four times? If everyone followed this plan we would all be looking at Manslaughter at a minimum. I may or may not issue a challenge. That depends on the situation and what is happening, and how sufficient my cover is.

    It's good to think through possible scenarios, and have some sort of plan, but remember, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." In short, things are fluid and changing, and you have to be willing to adapt quickly.

    Please don't get "cemented" into thinking there is only one way to solve the problem. As my Daddy told me a long time ago, "Son, there's more than one way to go around the Barn. Pick the way that works for you, as long as you get where you want to be."

    Biker

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    Hopefully, I wouldn't have to do anything except watch the BG walk out of the bank with his loot, and later tell the police about everything I witnessed.
    Now once the BG started herding people to back rooms, my definition of innocent bystander may change...not sure...would have to be there...but if action were needed, there would be no warnings...
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  4. #4
    Member Array ccwguy's Avatar
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    I agree with retsupt99 -- there would be no yelling of anything on my part.

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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    To quote the great sage Tuco....

    "When it is time to shoot....SHOOT.......Don't talk"

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    In SC, you may only shoot if you feel "in imminent danger of loss of life or severe bodily injury." You may NOT shoot to protect property. You may NOT shoot to protect someone else, except under the "third party defense" clause in most state's handgun laws. Watch that one, it can get you in deep ca-ca real quick if you pick the wrong guy to shoot. You carry a handgun to protect yourself and your family. You're not a LEO or a vigilante. You're not out on the street to stop crime in general.

    Don't get locked into a set way of dealing with a situation. BikerRN told you right, "No plan survives the first contact with the enemy." F350 told it straight, too. If you seriously feel your life is threatened, why stop and talk about it? While you're issuing "commands", the BG is dropping the hammer on you. A violent encounter is seldom a polite one. What you see on TV, when the BG and GG engage in a genteel tete-a-tete before lead flies, just doesn't happen in real life. That's supposed to be the advantage of concealed carry - surprise. Pull the trigger.

    Triple tap, huh? Is that the "2 to the COM then 1 to the head" method? We shoot to stop. That's shooting to kill. It'll get you up for Murder 2 real fast. And what if he collapses in a quivering blob at your presentation - will you still shoot? Will you hold him at gunpoint until the real LEOs arrive? What if he runs out of the bank? Will you follow and gun him down - from the back, maybe?

    The bottom line in any situation is, do you feel in danger of losing your life?

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I'm Not shouting anything,If I'm in fear for my life As soon as I see an opportunity that will not endanger any others,I will draw and stop the threat,tying me up or herding me into another room makes me think execution.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Hopefully, I wouldn't have to do anything except watch the BG walk out of the bank with his loot, and later tell the police about everything I witnessed.
    Now once the BG started herding people to back rooms, my definition of innocent bystander may change...not sure...would have to be there...but if action were needed, there would be no warnings...
    +1

    Nothing else to say, really.

    Matt
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Yelling a command, only makes you the target. If you have justification and legal standing to shoot, then shoot.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  10. #10
    Member Array JohnD13's Avatar
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    If the situation has gone so wrong that I feel my life or my loved ones lives are in danger, there would be no warning to the bad guy. Otherwise, as said before, I'll try to be a good witness.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Hopefully, I wouldn't have to do anything except watch the BG walk out of the bank with his loot, and later tell the police about everything I witnessed.
    Now once the BG started herding people to back rooms, my definition of innocent bystander may change...not sure...would have to be there...but if action were needed, there would be no warnings...
    Yep, that about sums up my take on the correct response.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Ė Luke 22:36

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  12. #12
    Member Array MarkN's Avatar
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    I agree with retsupt99.
    Be a good witness first-If in danger of my life(herding in rooms, ect.) act with no warnings.
    MN

  13. #13
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    If it becomes a situation where you have to shoot, then do what you have to do. Don't give the BG the chance to seek cover by yelling out commands first. Stop the threat and then deal with what ever comes down the road.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Nope, not going to be yelling any commands. If the BG is in the middle of a bank robbery, or in my case credit union 90% of the time, and it gets to the point where it is warranted, he just gets the lead.

    I know most of the folks that work at the branch we use pretty well. Some I have known for over 15 years. I would not be standing or sitting around while they were herded up, or taped together over a bomb or any of that nonsense.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Yep, once something like that goes down, we ain't talkin', we are shootin & killin.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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