Shooting Across the Street

Shooting Across the Street

This is a discussion on Shooting Across the Street within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So around 1:30 AM I hear gunfire - two shotgun blasts I am pretty sure and very near my house. I was already awake and ...

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Thread: Shooting Across the Street

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    Shooting Across the Street

    So around 1:30 AM I hear gunfire - two shotgun blasts I am pretty sure and very near my house. I was already awake and in the upstairs study, from there I have good visibility to the street below which has a couple folks in it, then they run back into their garage in the house across the street from me, hop in their car and go roaring up the road. They come back a few minutes later and park in the driveway and stand around in the drive way and talk for quite awhile.

    I get the sense the neighbors were not really involved in the shooting since they make no effort to leave or at least go inside and turn off the lights (they have garage door open with car lights on too).

    I holster a pistol and put a couple shotgun shells in my pocket (I keep an unloaded coach gun under my couch) and go downstairs. My wife was already awake too (feeding the baby) and had retreated into the bedroom and called 911. I call them back and give them the little bit of info I have and continue to watch across the street. They are obviously telling each other the story over and over and pantomiming what looks like a hip fired shotgun once or twice but I never see them with any weapons. So maybe it was a driveby on them, maybe it was further up the street (my wife thought it was) and they just jumped in the car to go investigate (!?!?!). I wouldn't put anything past these chuckleheads.

    Around 11-12 minutes after my Wife's call two PD cruisers roll slowly up the street, down the other court probably where my wife thought the shooting actually was, and then slowly back away. Good for
    them.

    My wife makes a comment about the slight bulge under my t-shirt after I give her a hug and her hand brushes the pistol tucked at 4:00. I ask her if she's scared because I'm armed or because there is a reason to be. She says both. She has never liked the fact that I own any guns and I am careful never to let her see them (she specifically has stated she doesn't want to ever see one). Maybe this will break the ice a little there...as for me it justifies the fact that I have guns within 10 feet of me at all times in the house and hell I may start carrying in the house even (I sometimes do but just to try out different holsters).

    I don't know what the point of this post is I just needed to tell this little story I guess. I'm having a hard time going to sleep now.

    Obvious mistake I made was not getting the weapon before looking out the window - what if a shooting victim was running towards my house for aid followed by his attacker? etc. etc.


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Obvious mistake I made was not getting the weapon before looking out the window - what if a shooting victim was running towards my house for aid followed by his attacker? etc. etc.
    First off, how do you know it's a shooting victim?

    Second, what responsibility do you have to come to their aide? You have a gun, what if someone was chasing the "victim" and you were forced to shoot the aggressor?

    The point I'm trying to make, is you do not know who the players are, or their role. Unless you are 100% certain of what is going on, you have a responsibility to keep your weapon silent.

    I look at it this way, I have taken steps to ensure my safety. Any shooting victim you encounter, that is an adult, has those same opportunities as I. Why then should I assume that safety for them? If they were negligent in their responsibilities why should I interfere with Darwinism?

    Other than calling 911, if I am off duty and you are not a threat to me and mine, or an identified LEO, the most you will likely get out of me is a call to 911. I can hose the victim's blood off my porch in the morning. I have a greater responsibility to my family than I do to a stranger in need. Why would I open my door, possibly giving a violent criminal actor access to my loved ones? Life ain't like the movies and I ain't John Wayne. There are no "re-takes" or do-overs.

    If my comments seem cold and callous, that's because I've learned how precious my life, and the life of my loved ones is. I don't care about your life, except as to how it impacts mine.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; October 3rd, 2009 at 03:34 AM. Reason: typo

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    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    I should have worded that a little better. The only way this incident reaches me is if it comes into my house; a victim running for help would be one way. Once he is banging on my front door, I need to be ready to defend that door if anyone comes through it. That is all I meant.

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    I am curious Biker,

    I always respect your comments, they seem straight and to the point and very well put. But in a lot of your statements, you say you do not care about others lives except for how it impacts yours. Also by your comments, I assume you are a LEO or other public safety person. Why would you be in that profession if you did not care about others lives?

    To the OP. I would call 911, only way I am involved is if I know the players and the incident that lead up to the shooting.




    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    First off, how do you know it's a shooting victim?

    Second, what responsibility do you have to come to their aide? You have a gun, what if someone was chasing the "victim" and you were forced to shoot the aggressor?

    The point I'm trying to make, is you do not know who the players are, or their role. Unless you are 100% certain of what is going on, you have a responsibility to keep your weapon silent.

    I look at it this way, I have taken steps to ensure my safety. Any shooting victim you encounter, that is an adult, has those same opportunities as I. Why then should I assume that safety for them? If they were negligent in their responsibilities why should I interfere with Darwinism?

    Other than calling 911, if I am off duty and you are not a threat to me and mine, or an identified LEO, the most you will likely get out of me is a call to 911. I can hose the victim's blood off my porch in the morning. I have a greater responsibility to my family than I do to a stranger in need. Why would I open my door, possibly giving a violent criminal actor access to my loved ones? Life ain't like the movies and I ain't John Wayne. There are no "re-takes" or do-overs.

    If my comments seem cold and callous, that's because I've learned how precious my life, and the life of my loved ones is. I don't care about your life, except as to how it impacts mine.

    Biker
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    I have noticed on many occasions, not just on this forum and throughout society as a whole. The quote I dont care about anybody, nor their situation that they may be in. Im not saying put your life on the line for an innocent person, or risk the lives of your family to help someone.

    However, I truly cannot say that I do not and would not care for anybody, regardless of the circumstances. I wouldnt risk my family or my life without truly knowing the facts at hand. But I also dont make the comment that your life means nothing to me or your life means nothing to me. Your death will be tragic and my life will go on. I do have a genuine concern for human life, beit a stranger on not.

    I fell that in todays time, people are too quick to say your life is worth nothing to me. Regardless of the situation a humans life is not meaningless.

    Not flamming anybody, just an observation..

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyII View Post
    I have noticed on many occasions, not just on this forum and throughout society as a whole. The quote I dont care about anybody, nor their situation that they may be in. Im not saying put your life on the line for an innocent person, or risk the lives of your family to help someone.

    However, I truly cannot say that I do not and would not care for anybody, regardless of the circumstances. I wouldnt risk my family or my life without truly knowing the facts at hand. But I also dont make the comment that your life means nothing to me or your life means nothing to me. Your death will be tragic and my life will go on. I do have a genuine concern for human life, beit a stranger on not.

    I fell that in todays time, people are too quick to say your life is worth nothing to me. Regardless of the situation a humans life is not meaningless.

    Not flamming anybody, just an observation..

    +1 I have never used deadly force, but have been in a position where I had to put my safety on the line to rescue someone who nearly died.

    It was a 10 year old child who was literally clinging onto life by the fingertips, nearly fell 15 feet into a creek that was running very rapid due to storms, and about 1/4 mile from a low head dam.

    He thought he would walk onto a wall that was on the edge of the river, he slipped and was holding on by his finger tips. I was walking and heard someone yelling for help, and I just reacted, never thought of my own safety until it was over. I was younger back then, only about 15, but I would do the same today.
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  7. #7
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    We live in a terribly confusing and dangerous world. One cannot afford to be the 'savior' of others just because you have made the correct decision to arm yourself.
    One must also remember that we all have the opportunity to arm ourselves and get some training, those who choose NOT to do so should not expect others to come running to be their 'hero' in times of trouble.
    Pretty cold on my part? Oh well...life's a struggle and we all make our own beds, don't we?

    Getting yourself involved in the problems of others may just land YOU in jail and without a permit, not to mention the huge costs of an attorney to help save your skin.
    It's easy to talk about exposing your 'Superman' suit and flying in to the rescue, but doing it is another thing.

    Unless I would know the EXACT situation that a troubled citizen has found himself/herself in, I'm just going to be a good witness.
    Is the agressor an undercover cop? Will I be mistaken for a BG? Who's armed in the situation? Are there other BG's on the 'edge' of the scene?
    Call 911 and let them handle it...

    If my friends or family are in trouble, my desire to become involved changes significantly.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justherenow View Post
    I am curious Biker,

    I always respect your comments, they seem straight and to the point and very well put. But in a lot of your statements, you say you do not care about others lives except for how it impacts yours. Also by your comments, I assume you are a LEO or other public safety person. Why would you be in that profession if you did not care about others lives?

    To the OP. I would call 911, only way I am involved is if I know the players and the incident that lead up to the shooting.
    Thats the only problem with talking in text...I think biker is right in his statement..As I look at my little ones, if I hear gun shots accross the street there safty is more important than any victim or attacker. I would defend my family and my family only. Im not LEO and feel in this scenario no responsibilty to anyone else.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Thats the only problem with talking in text...I think biker is right in his statement..As I look at my little ones, if I hear gun shots accross the street there safty is more important than any victim or attacker. I would defend my family and my family only. Im not LEO and feel in this scenario no responsibilty to anyone else.
    I totally agree. I just get confused by the statement that "I don't care about your life, except as to how it impacts mine" which appears in alot of responses. I feel if one is in public safety at all, it should be to help others, which means one must care about the others well beings to some extent. I did not mean my comment to be a flame, just a general obersvation.
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  10. #10
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I will stand by my previous statement.

    I don't wear a cape, I'm not a Superhero and I can't leap tall buildings in a single bound. Yes, I am involved in public safety, when I am working. Working is the key word here.

    When I am not on the clock I am not "covered" by my employer and, "Any actions taken off duty will not be considered within the scope of employment." Being that I'm on my own, why would I want to increase my liability for the sake of a stranger that may have created the whole situation to begin with?

    I need to be sure of who the players are. So does anyone else. IMO that means calling the on duty guys and gals to sort it out. I have a responsibility to the general public, but I have a greater responsibility to my loved ones. I very well cannot put food on the table if I'm having to pay a lawyer for a righteous shoot, let alone an unjustified one. Also, I may not have a job while all this is going on as well.

    Getting involved carries risk, both physical and financial. One needs to be sure that the cost is worth it before they jump into that very deep pool. I've made my decision, and it's mine. I do not ask you to agree with it. I just hope that all of you have reflected on the matter and arrived at your own conclusions.

    Take care and stay safe,

    Biker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karter View Post
    Around 11-12 minutes after my Wife's call two PD cruisers roll slowly up the street,...
    The above is what stood out the most for me, and it is why I carry whenever and wherever legally possible.

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    Being an LEO tends to harden you over time. LEO's are required to intervene in no-win situations. LEO's actions will be "2nd guessed", "what if'd" and "Monday morning quarterbacked" to death, especially if it involves a shooting situation. He is required to make split second decisions, with limited and often inaccurate information in most cases, that may cost someone their lives, including his own... Then afterwards as the correct information is gathered, it is questioned and analyzed how he could have acted the way he did. He is often judged on his actions in the situation based on the correct information, not what he knew at the time.

    It generally makes you more interested in being anonymous, especially, when you are off-duty. While it comes off as callous to many, it is kinda of a coping mechanism, for dealing with the job.
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    I agree with Biker in this situation. Just because you carry a gun, you can't come calling to every situation that goes bump in the night. Would you have such bravado if you didn't have the weapon. You open yourself up to a lot of trouble you don't want if you intentionally go into a situation that may require you to draw. Not that I wouldn't protect my neighbors if so needed, but I'm not about to run into a situation in the middle of the night that I know nothing about. How many people? who's the BG? how many weapons? other contributing factors as well. You have increased responsibillites when you carry, and you can't make a wrong choice here. And my first responsibility is to me and my own, getting in involved in other domestic issues can get nasty real fast.

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    They taught these and other things in some armed self defense classes I took this year.

    1. Who are you willing to put your life on the line for?

    2. The situation may not really be what you think it is, therefore you may do the wrong thing if you shoot what you think is the bad guy.

    I live in a rural area with only two immediate neighbors. One 50 feet to the east and one 250 feet to the west.

    If I heard gunshots to the east, I would call police and secure my home. I would not risk my safety to help them. If I heard gunshots to the west, I would be inclined to help them, if possible. I would call the police first.

    There are other neighbors farther away that I would risk my life for, since I know that they would do the same for me. There are others that I would not do it for.

    Of course, you don't really know what you will do spontaneously if the situation arose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX-JB View Post
    Being an LEO tends to harden you over time. LEO's are required to intervene in no-win situations. LEO's actions will be "2nd guessed", "what if'd" and "Monday morning quarterbacked" to death, especially if it involves a shooting situation. He is required to make split second decisions, with limited and often inaccurate information in most cases, that may cost someone their lives, including his own... Then afterwards as the correct information is gathered, it is questioned and analyzed how he could have acted the way he did. He is often judged on his actions in the situation based on the correct information, not what he knew at the time.

    It generally makes you more interested in being anonymous, especially, when you are off-duty. While it comes off as callous to many, it is kinda of a coping mechanism, for dealing with the job.
    Very well put!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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