Armed robbery, shoot or hide?
This is a discussion on Armed robbery, shoot or hide? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Guy comes in to a store, bank, etc with a gun, and points it right at the clerk/teller, etc.
You have the drop on him. ...
October 4th, 2009 04:54 AM
Armed robbery, shoot or hide?
Guy comes in to a store, bank, etc with a gun, and points it right at the clerk/teller, etc.
You have the drop on him. His focus for the next few moments doesn't involve you.
A) Be as cooperative and invisible as you can and hope he leaves without hurting anyone.
B) Draw your weapon, take aim, and yell "Don't move!"
C) Draw your weapon, take aim, and fire.
October 4th, 2009 05:24 AM
B is plan A, C is plan B.
October 4th, 2009 05:34 AM
Being that most Armed Robberies around here don't involve the clerk/teller being shot, or other patrons, I opt for Plan A.
Originally Posted by dobanion
If things change, then I change and adapt as necessary. I'm not going to create a shootout if it can be avoided. I don't care two hoots about the money. Heck, I'll even carry it out for them if there's too much and it's too heavy for them. I care, first and foremost about my hide. I don't like the idea of being a bullet sponge.
Just because you can legally do something doesn't mean you should.
October 4th, 2009 06:08 AM
Here is where I differ from BikerRN on these kinds of scenarios.
Now bear in mind, this is only if I am at "contact distance" from the BG and he is focused solely on the teller. (Which, in all honestly, I find this to be a highly unlikely situation.) But, if he's directly in front of me and doesn't know I'm there, I'm shooting him in the base of his skull about 2 inches from contact.
The reason is, is that in just a matter of moments he is going to be aware that I am that close and I don't want to be in that close a proximity to him when he starts waiving his gun around. I'm also not going to risk being the first one to be shot by being that close.
I also feel that being that close and trying to slowly sneak away really isn't going to work without being noticed and then it's anyone's guess as to how he is going to react.
Now, if I'm at any other location in the bank and not standing right next to him, then I'm back in BikerRN's camp and will try and make myself invisible and react accordingly if he actually starts shooting.
Also, nothing is set in stone... These situations are highly fluid and dynamic. I have a general idea on what to do in various scenarios and situations, but you really have to be there and respond to each situation on an individual basis as it plays out.
Now I'm no hero and I almost exclusively plan to keeping my head down behind cover and observing the situation and being a good witness. I fully understand most armed robberies go off without anyone being shot. I've viewed hundreds of closed circuit surveillance video's of armed robberies in progress. Whether it's a convenience store, bank, gas station, whatever... I know most robberies go off without people getting shot. But there are also those that don't happen without people getting shot or killed, even after complying. And I've seen those video tapes too. Plenty of them.
So, in the extremely rare and unlikely situation when a BG is standing directly in front of me a 12 or 18 inches away, I'm putting his lights out with a shot to the medulla.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
October 4th, 2009 06:57 AM
I'll echo what Biker said. Here's my perspective on the three options offered in this scenario. Keep in mind that I have been the victim of FOUR armed robberies as a hotel desk clerk. I'm speaking from personal experience! Taking a shot at the BG puts the clerk's life in danger.
Option A: If I were the clerk involved I would rather give the BG my cash drawer (I did this once!) and let the BG leave the area as quickly as possible. The last place I want to be is in your line of fire if you are "less then accurate." You might be shooting me as the clerk.
Option B: NO
Option C: NO
Each of the 4 armed robberies lasted less than 60 seconds. The last thing I wanted was to make these robberies is to have someone play "hero" and try to save my life. I've been trained in how to deal with an armed robber. The fact that I'm still alive & well posting here should tell you something.
At the risk of sounding somewhat ungrateful, I would rather you be a good witness and give the the LE personnel a good description of the events of the robbery.
Last edited by Pikachu711; October 4th, 2009 at 09:07 AM.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
October 4th, 2009 07:10 AM
Originally Posted by BikerRN
+1 to Biker
October 4th, 2009 07:55 AM
Here's my take: BG is in close proximity, has clearly demonstrated intent, has the capability and the threat is immediate. This is sufficient justification to employ deadly force IMHO. I will not trust an armed felon in this situation to not pull the trigger on me.
Mind you, if the situation changes and any of the requirements for use of deadly force is absent, my response will change accordingly. I would much prefer to be a good witness.
October 4th, 2009 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Bark'n
We see stories frequently of robbers who get the money and just have to throw in a killing too.
I don't like trusting my life to the goodwill of an armed robber.
October 4th, 2009 08:53 AM
I'd prefer to be invisible in the corner, but if it comes down to a decision where I believe I have to shoot, I am not giving the challenge and giving up what little advantage I have by warning the offender that I'm there. I bet if you yell "don't move" he moves anyway. Capability, proximity, intent, then shoot, in the back, in the head, in the foot if necessary.
I don't plan on trying to be a hero, and a CCW doesn't make anybody security guard for the whole world, but if that robbery goes beyond a point where I can no longer safely just observe it I'll shoot without warning. Why react when you can force the BG to react to incoming rounds?
October 4th, 2009 09:09 AM
I feel the same way as Bark'n. I do not want to make bullets start flying, nor do I want to become a bullet sponge because of my proximity.
If I can become invisible, that's my first choice.
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October 4th, 2009 09:14 AM
Option D is missing.
Silently move to a postion of cover, draw weapon and be ready to fire it he turns his gun on me.
Other than that, my closest option is A.
I have a CPL, not a LEO's badge, and it's not my job stop a robbery in progress. I'm better off being a living witness.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
October 4th, 2009 09:16 AM
Agree with Pikachu711 entirely. Absolute last resort to shoot the bank robber. Keep in mind that if you kill a guy, there's a good chance you are going to jail and will have to defend your actions. The robbers gun might be a toy. I was in a gun store yesterday and a clerk told me he hoped a robber would break into his house so he could blow him away. That trigger happy attitude is not what concealed weapons carriers should be about. That gives gun carriers a bad image.
October 4th, 2009 09:24 AM
For the benefit of all who have read my earlier posting, each of the four armed robberies occurred when I was alone in the lobby. I can only assume that the BG's were watching & waiting till I was alone to avoid having any witnesses to the robberies.
I'm just grateful to be alive after going through these four very bad experiences. It takes almost losing your life to appreciate the small things in life.
In my book, any day above ground is a good day!
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
October 4th, 2009 09:25 AM
Im a good witness unless there is clear and present indications that the guy is going to shoot. By that, if he comes in shooting, I will return fire, i wont care where he is shooting, I wont have time to think about that.
But as the posted situation, standing in line, guy pulls a gun and robs the place, I will be glad to give the police a good description of what has happened.
Lets add to this situation. The robber pulls a gun, your pull yours, the guy behind you pulls his because he is working with the robber and now there are 2 bodies to be carried out and now your wife/kids will be fatherless.
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PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
October 4th, 2009 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by Rugergirl
Only thing I might add would be if BG started shooting customers, yes, I will be making him dance.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
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