how far we have come in 50 years...

This is a discussion on how far we have come in 50 years... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I got spanked as a kid by my Patents & Teachers... And I deserved every dam one of them! God bless America...

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Thread: how far we have come in 50 years...

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    I got spanked as a kid by my Patents & Teachers...

    And I deserved every dam one of them!


    God bless America
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

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  3. #77
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I think there tends to be a misunderstanding about what religion is, and as a result it is generally referred to as a belief in some sort of god; whether Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or whatever flavor.

    <snipped>

    Too many people think that removing God from classrooms takes religion out of our schools -- it doesn't, it replaces it with another. Our country has been built on a foundation of Christian principles and morals, and those are what propelled this country into the best, and most prosperous, place on earth. Those are being ripped out from under the fabric of our society and being replace by other principles and morals. We need to understand the consequences of that replacement, especially in the light that history sheds on previous uses of these other principles and morals.
    You want to teach about "god" in school. I asked this before - which god?

    I'm pretty sure most of you who want prayer in school will say YOUR god - let's pray to Jesus, right?

    But what about people who don't believe in that god?

    Think about it - how would you feel if they decided to allow prayer back into school, and then started praying to Allah every day? Would you be OK with that, or would you object to your children being forced to pray to a god you don't believe in?

    If you DO object to it, then you are being the one thing that Jesus condemned most - a hypocrite. You are saying that YOUR religion and YOUR rights take precedence over anyone else's.

    Can ANYONE explain to me why YOUR rights are more important?

  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    As the mods have said, this is not a discussion per se about religion. As a Christian and a pastor, I do have personal views about the basic subject of the OP but all of our discussion on this topic are just mere personal opinion and mere conjecture, much of which is STRONGLY held by each of us regardless of our various positions.

    However,at the same time, Buckeye and 12Rounds, I must take exception to your disrespectful and mocking attitudes towards religion. While you are certainly entitled to hold your own positions, and to argue forcefully for your own positions, it seems to me that repeatedly, both of you, have taken some pretty "cheap shots" at religion in general. If we took some of your comments about religion per se and applied your words to, say for example, Glock firearms--("Glock firearms are part of the world's problems")--many Glock owners would find that kind of comment very offensive.

    One of the things that I enjoy about this forum is the general tone and tenor of mutual respect with which we treat each other and it seems to me that both of you have crossed that line of respect/disrespect.

    I have tried to be respectful of you in this hopefully constructive observation--I am NOT attacking your positions, but where I think you have crossed the line in taking disrespectful cheap shots. I have to leave for work in about 5 minutes and so I won't be able to respond again until late this afternoon.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  5. #79
    Ex Member Array BuckeyeEric's Avatar
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    Hmmm. I'll have to back up and see what I said, and why I was singled out by name!

    Edit: Yup. I didn't bring the topic of religion into this conversation. I mostly just defended my position on evolution and what should be taught in schools.

    Sorry Pastor Scott

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Off topic --> Where are the flying cars?

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Lack or loss of religion is not the answer,or rather problem.
    Yet another quaint view that is pretty easily shot down, pun intended, simply by reviewing the facts of American history.

    Folk have been crowing about godlessness and too little religion in family and schools, as in America, since we hit Plymouth Rock and soon there after encountered self induced strife as with the native peoples who were deemed to be so called 'savages'.

    America _had_ religion in schools as well as religion being a central part of the average American's life and so called moral fabric as for greater than 300 yrs.

    And guess what came of that?

    Same as today, and worse.
    Murder, rape, pillaging, theft, underground as well as blatant criminal activity.

    So much so that multiple whole groups of people spun off from established religions and/or outright created their own religions for the _exact_ same reasons as have been stated by multiple persons as in this very thread.
    Has time forgotten the American Puritans, Quakers and Shakers, Mennoites (as in North America), Mormons, Judaism of all manner and many many many more including a very long history of American Islamists too.

    Crime, criminality, and compliant of moral fabric reduction has been a constant as through out _all_ of American history.
    This is not at all difficult information to locate and confirm either.
    One of many very easy examples and confirmations of this is a look at the history of NY City as during the early 1800s into the post WW1 period of the 1930s, which in whole reflected much of American morality. A morality in truth that today many Americans would barely recognize never mind swallow easily.

    People also forget that there was no such thing as child labor laws up until historically very recent times in America. Prior schools were relatively sparse in America and not often public as they are today, because quite simply children were used as tools of labor both urban and rural. This had been the case in America for nearly 250 yrs. before a major shift in that view occurred during the post WWII time period and really took hold as into the 60s and 70s with Modernism.
    Never mind that most persons did not graduate past what is now deemed a middle school level if attended at all, as prior to WW2's end. This was the norm for much of America as into the 50's (!). Graduating HS was at that time, and still is in many areas, a very big deal. Never mind practice of religion as within the school a past generation may or may not have attended muchless graduated from.
    Oh, and lets not forget the very dark history of Catholic schools and schooling as in America, and I'm not referring to the more recent time period revelation of rape but rather that of child abuse as well as slave labor and even kidnapping and white slavery as related to girls who were either unwed mothers and/or those selected by their family to 'become a nun'.
    Talk about religion in schools...Hello.

    The religion argument also has no feet nor legs to stand on.
    So says and shows American history facts and crime figures.

    - Janq

    "Before World War II, if a young man wanted sex, he had two basic options: marriage or a brothel. So in the 1930s, one in five American men lost his virginity to a prostitute." - Stephen Dubner, Author, 'Super Freakonomics'
    Source - Super Freakonomics: Prostitution's Perks and Economics - ABC News
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  8. #82
    Member Array Toml's Avatar
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    I see two differences:
    1) Problems caused by crowding.
    2) Problems caused by the parallel-economy/crime syndicates that feed the hunger for drugs, prostitution, and gambling. (Not new, but increasingly problematic.)

  9. #83
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Davies View Post
    However,at the same time, Buckeye and 12Rounds, I must take exception to your disrespectful and mocking attitudes towards religion. While you are certainly entitled to hold your own positions, and to argue forcefully for your own positions, it seems to me that repeatedly, both of you, have taken some pretty "cheap shots" at religion in general. If we took some of your comments about religion per se and applied your words to, say for example, Glock firearms--("Glock firearms are part of the world's problems")--many Glock owners would find that kind of comment very offensive.

    One of the things that I enjoy about this forum is the general tone and tenor of mutual respect with which we treat each other and it seems to me that both of you have crossed that line of respect/disrespect.

    I have tried to be respectful of you in this hopefully constructive observation--I am NOT attacking your positions, but where I think you have crossed the line in taking disrespectful cheap shots. I have to leave for work in about 5 minutes and so I won't be able to respond again until late this afternoon.
    Respect - doesn't it keep coming back to that?

    But would you agree that respect has to work in both directions?

  10. #84
    Member Array Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12Rounds View Post
    Henry,
    Secular Humanism is not a religion. Check your P.M.'s I sent you a link that will help you to understand the difference.
    12Rounds,

    I'm going to respectfully disagree with that statement, but I will explain why. My premise that Secular Humanism is a religion is based on the definition of the word religion, which I'll quote here:
    Quote Originally Posted by www.dictionary.com
    a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
    You will notice that there is a clause stating "especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman..."; however, the "especially" does allow for exceptions to the "usual" involvement of "superhuman" deities in the religion. And that is why I think the term "secular" in secular humanism is a misnomer, and would be more appropriately, and still accurately, called atheistic humanism. The reason I think so is because this humanistic view of things does contain all the elements required to fit the definition of "religion" as described in the dictionary entry. I also think, and perhaps this will clarify what I'm trying to say, that instead of the word religion it would be just as appropriate to call secular humanism or christianity a "belief system" or "world view"; particularly since both define how a professor of either view looks at and interprets the world around them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    You want to teach about "god" in school. I asked this before - which god?

    I'm pretty sure most of you who want prayer in school will say YOUR god - let's pray to Jesus, right?

    But what about people who don't believe in that god?

    Think about it - how would you feel if they decided to allow prayer back into school, and then started praying to Allah every day? Would you be OK with that, or would you object to your children being forced to pray to a god you don't believe in?

    If you DO object to it, then you are being the one thing that Jesus condemned most - a hypocrite. You are saying that YOUR religion and YOUR rights take precedence over anyone else's.

    Can ANYONE explain to me why YOUR rights are more important?
    Sorry, Random, but you have misunderstood the intent of my post. While I certainly do have a personal view regarding which religion is best taught in schools what I was trying to get across is that removing "God" out of schools does not actually get religion out of schools, it just replaces a Christian-based religious view with a humanistic-based (or Islamic, or Buddhist, etc.) religious view. Along with that I was trying to say that it is important for people to take a close look at the belief system and to ask whether or not it supports the values that are important to themselves.

  11. #85
    Ex Member Array 12Rounds's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if you are offended Scott. Or felt that I took cheap shots at your beliefs .

  12. #86
    Senior Member Array scgunlover1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp3276 View Post
    +1 on this. Just had some friends that had social services strip search their kids on their own home. All for spanking. I got spanked in school a few times myself. When there is no discipline and no consequences for actions the actors will no longer have any consciences. The Lord has written his law on our hearts but if you suppress it long enough and no longer call evil evil you reap what you sow.
    +1 on your whole comment, jp3276.
    SCGunLover1

  13. #87
    JD
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