Concern with being shot by another CC'er?
This is a discussion on Concern with being shot by another CC'er? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm usually not into hyphothetical situations, but due to the growing number of carry permit holders that could increase the odds of something like this ...
October 22nd, 2009 05:15 PM
Concern with being shot by another CC'er?
I'm usually not into hyphothetical situations, but due to the growing number of carry permit holders that could increase the odds of something like this really happening...this one has me thinking "what if"??? Keep in mind this is just one of many possible scenarios.
Let's say you are in a parking lot and are forced to present, but not fire your weapon to stop an attacker with a pipe, crowbar, etc. (Please I'm not looking for a shoot or don't shoot arguement). At the same moment another CC'er is exiting his car and only sees you with your gun drawn, but does not realize you are on the defense. The next thing you see is him drawing down on you!!!
What would you do?
October 22nd, 2009 05:20 PM
Anything is a possibility and this is one although I think very remote. From my perspective I see another attacker only this one has a gun not a pipe/crowbar. Maybe this is where one of those CC badges would come in handy. (Joking folks, not trying to hijack the thread.) Anyway I am now being attacked from two sides. Let's hope the guy with the gun doesn't come at me shooting and I can somehow defuse the situation .
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
October 22nd, 2009 05:24 PM
I think it is a valid fear, which is part of why I would be calling the police asap after I pulled my weapon. I think some firearms owners and CCW'ers have something akin to a "white hat" mentality, where they just look for an instance to use their weapon, trying to get their name in the papers or some such thing (I'm not exactly sure). I don't know how to fix that issue though.
So I guess I'd hope that my military haircut, clean shaven appearance, and decent clothing would be enough to make them think that I was some sort of gov't employee (which I am). And hopefully the BG would be some shaggy, ill-kempt druggie looking type, and the CCW'er would have some common sense. It's really about the best answer I have for now, maybe this thread will give me some better ones.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
October 22nd, 2009 05:27 PM
I think the case your presenting is a good reason why if you present your gun but don't shoot, you should be talking very loudly, giving direct commands on what the person you drew down on should be doing.
If your giving loud commands to the person and they are complying. Drop the crow bar, back off I don't want any trouble, get on your knees, or lay flat on the ground away from your weapon, ok fill in the other various number of commands one might give here.
But the point is, the other person if they come out of a store or whereever and see someone with a gun drawn giving directions for someone else to comply in a non offensive manner, well they shouldn't be drawing down on you.
Would you, or would you observe to make sure that the person with the gun was only making the other submit? I feel most would wait the 1 to 2 seconds it would take to figure out what was going on.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.www.ddchl.com
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
October 22nd, 2009 05:35 PM
If some other CC'er can't tell the difference between a thug in a black hoodie with a crowbar or a knife facing an elderly white-haired lady and her husband growling out orders to 'back off'...we're going to have problems.
Hey, it's a 'dog eat dog' world out there, and I will deal with the crime forced upon me and all the possible tangents as they happen.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
October 22nd, 2009 05:47 PM
This is when one of those CCW badges would come in real handy...
In all honesty, I don't know that there is a good answer given that sort of hypothetical. The upside is it's probably unlikely that you would have that kind of convergence in the first place. I would say your best bet would be to run like a bat outta Hades since you would really have no idea if it was another CCW holder or the guy's accomplice.
October 22nd, 2009 05:58 PM
I would shout, "Call 911."
October 22nd, 2009 06:05 PM
I agree with what is said about being very vocal.
If the second carrier gets out of his vehicle and before he even sees you holding your would-be assailant at gun point he hears you screaming, "CALL THE POLICE!" That's automatically going to identify you as someone who is okay with the police being on the scene (usually a roll reserved for the good guy).
Keep the communication going ("Call 911!", "Don't move.", "I need an officer.", "Drop your weapon.", "HELP!"), even when the police arrive, and keep yourself out of suspicion.
October 22nd, 2009 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by farronwolf
...and this. V
If I had to pull a firearm on someone, I'd be shouting to anyone nearby to call 911.
Originally Posted by tiwee
October 22nd, 2009 06:23 PM
retsup99...Ms. Orangevol isn't going to appreciate you calling her an elderly white-haired lady...LOL
Originally Posted by retsupt99
October 23rd, 2009 12:50 AM
Concerned about being shot by another CCW'er? Hadn't even considered the possibility. I'm in CA! The chances of that happening here today are only slightly better than the Earth being hit by a killer comet! Finally found ONE reason to take solace in CA's stupid gun laws. (That single reason is sure to be lonely for a long time.)
Now, being serious, that situation will likely change significantly in 2010 as the judiciary is on hold in CCW issuance cases until Heller II is decided, incorporating Heller I. Then our "may issue" will likely be modified by court ruling to force the inclusion of personal defense as good cause. That will effectively make CA a "shall issue" state. Then I might have to worry about it. But honestly, no, I don't worry about getting shot by another CCW'er.
October 23rd, 2009 01:42 AM
I've thought about this as well believe it or not. I think it is another great reason to take the approach of being a good witness before trying to save the day of someone you don't know, especially when you don't know the situation fully. Not only could impulsively intervening injure a law abiding ccw'er, imagine the consequences if it was an off duty cop with the gun out.
Last edited by southpaw; October 23rd, 2009 at 01:43 AM.
‘‘A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.’’ ---James Madison, The Federalist Papers
October 23rd, 2009 01:58 AM
IT's a concern I have.....
Having worked in the system... we've been arresting someone on a warrant , considered dangerous, and having been shot at by them .... and add being in normal clothes ... a Sheriff's officer came into the situation (not knowing) and drawing down on us. On top of that, he was a very nervous "rookie"... ugh... who was on his first patrol by himself.
October 23rd, 2009 02:32 AM
I have often posted that my greatest fear, when off duty, is being shot by a fellow LEO. Now add the additional CCW Permit, or whatever name it's called in the various locales, to the conundrum and you have a recipe for disaster.
Originally Posted by orangevol
That is one of many reasons for me to be reticent in engaging another party with a firearm. The only advice I can give on this subject is, If you don't know what's going on, stay the heck out of it!
What you think is happening may be 180 degrees from the truth. You need to be 100% positive, or not get involved.
October 23rd, 2009 06:05 AM
That's why CC's aren't cops. They are not supposed to get involved.
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