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threat of having a gun?

2K views 23 replies 23 participants last post by  Bob O 
#1 ·
A couple years ago before I carried I was getting gas at night (should have known better). 2 ladies asked me to spare some money so they can get some gas and I said I didnt have any to spare. Then they said ok thanks anyways (I think). Then they start saying stuff like I cant help anyone when they are down on their luck blah blah pretty much talking crap. I told them I work hard for my money and to shut up. One of the ladies said to the other "get the gun get the gun". Is that enough of a threat for me to pull out my gun (if i was carrying at the time)?


edit:

Forgot to finish the story.

I had a feeling they didnt have a gun and just wanted to scare me. I stood there waiting for them to pull out a gun. They didnt so I got in the car and left they started following me so I made a circle and pulled back into the gas station and they took off. I got my first gun the following week, springfield xd 9.
 
#3 ·
I had a feeling they didnt have a gun and just wanted to scare me.
Based on that I would say no. You stated that you were not in reasonable fear of losing your life.

That said, In Colorado they would be guilty of brandishing
 
#5 ·
Then they start saying stuff like I cant help anyone when they are down on their luck blah blah pretty much talking crap. I told them I work hard for my money and to shut up. One of the ladies said to the other "get the gun get the gun".

Is that enough of a threat for me to pull out my gun (if i was carrying at the time)?
You're approached by multiple people, they pump up the pressure once it's clear you've declined, then one specifically makes reference to "getting the gun."

Is that enough to be concerned about? IMO, it absolutely is, yes. At minimum, with two people attempting to force me to cough up cash and one of them suggesting to "get the gun," I would have my hand on my gun and be dictating in simple and clear terms that they ought to rethink their stupidity and leave peacefully ... NOW. I'd want to increase distance from them. I'd want them to immediately back down and leave. I'd be yelling for someone to call for help (at a gas station, with either staff or other customers around). The rest would be dictated by their actions.

Would the statements, alone, justify drawing down on them? Almost certainly not, unless they were manifesting their intention to commit an armed robbery by going for a weapon, or splitting up to go to a car/bag/whatever. All would depend on the circumstances, what additional information was corroborating my concerns over what they just said. (Their statements, actions, body language, how tense or "juiced" they seemed to be, how close they were ... all of which could combine with their direct statement about using a firearm to force me to make it time to do more than quietly await them gaining the upper hand.)

But, I'm certain that I would not be trusting them so far as they could be kicked. At minimum, that would mean being prepared for instantly defending against what seems to be the path they've chosen.
 
#7 ·
Opportunity, capability, and intent. They didn't 'brandish' or show a gun so it'd be a tough call. At the very least a hand on my holstered sidearm and the other on the cell phone to 911. Threatening would be enough to make me wanna bug out and de-escalate.....regardless of gender.
 
#9 ·
Of the three, they didn't demonstrate "capability" --- therefore, it's an easy call: don't pull your firearm. I agree, the threat would certainly warrant my attention, but that is the point at which you put distance between yourself and the "potential" threat.

It was nice of these two retards to let you know their intentions :congrats:

-Seawolf
 
#10 ·
Your first mistake was engaging them in ANY conversation...a simple, "Get away for me!" would/should have been enough.
I always put up my hand (stop) and loudly voice my disgust with someone bothering me...I want no problems, questions, or exchange with strangers in a gas station at night.

After having the conversation you did, I would have climbed into my vehicle and quickly left.:wave:
 
#12 ·
I agree

Remember every time you draw your gun, you are probably going to have to hire an attorney.

So consider it this way. Is it worth $3500 dollars or more to draw your gun? If you life depends on it sure, that’s the reason we carry a sidearm in the first place.

But if it’s just some drunk bad mouthing off at you or harassing you for money. Then get in your car and leave. If you’re on foot, then keep walking, and pay no attention to them, and head for a crowed place.
 
#14 ·
I agree with others that this is not the time to pull your gun. I don't even think you should put your hand on the gun in any way that could be considered brandishing.

I think telling them you didn't have any money to give them was fine. However, I think by telling them to "shut up" you are participating in escalating the situation. I wouldn't have engaged beyond my first rejection of their request. I don't take retsupt99's approach to these kinds of situation at first contact (though I think his approach is perfectly reasonable), but if they persisted after the first response, I'm probably going to follow up using retsupt99's line.
 
#15 ·
In my state, threat of imminent severe bodily harm or death must be present to use deadly force. A threat without present means to carry out that threat is not justification to use deadly force.

A little common sense tells you that pulling your weapon would have been a criminal act on your part! Sorry!
 
#16 ·
To me ... NO, you shouldn't pull a gun in that situation... there is no actual threat on your life... just talk.
 
#17 ·
If retreat is an option... take it. like it was said before if you brandish the weapon be prepared to defend yourself in a court of law... you never know who will press charges and who won't. Even if you are in the right.
 
#18 ·
Well I have to agree this is not a draw situation. I think a call to the PD or walking in the the gas station, Good on you for not going home and returning to an open station. I preach that to all of my friends if they get in trouble. (you keep moving till you find some place that has people around.)
 
#19 ·
I know this is Monday morning QBing but, whenever you're in a situation where you consider using your gun, call the police.

Otherwise, you may find yourself answering questions from a prosecutor, dictating what happened while the jury views a video of the incident from a gas pump cam with not sound.
 
#21 ·
"Is that enough of a threat for me to pull out my gun (if i was carrying at the time)?
I would say no, but you were close to it. Like moments away from it. No attack, no weapon shown = no weapon drawn by me. But ready to..

For those who suggest retreat while he is outside his truck and pumping gas you're not considering how locked into that spot you are in that situation. Leaving ASAP may be a lot longer than you seem to think and I certainly would not abandon my vehicle and run down the road. This is a "seconds count" thing and if they really had intent you are wasting time trying to leave and giving them a window to complete the deed before you get anywhere.

Had a simular experience 10 years ago but it was daylight - @ 3:30pm with normal traffic and such that goes on in a big city. I was getting gas at a 7-11. After I put the nozzle in the neck and started pumping my eyes were drawn to the only two people standing in front of the store - a young black woman and a somewhat scruffy looking white guy, maybe around 30. A moment later he walks directly over to me up to my tailgate. I had no cash on me at the time, unless you consider the lost change I would have had to search for in the truck, so I already knew we had no reason to talk. I wasn't going to buy anything and I wasn't going to be donating anything - we are at a public place so if he really needed help it was available easier than talking to me and I even had my ex in the truck so no rides were going to be given. I raised my hand and shook my head no about the time he was 10 feet away from the truck. He kept coming and kept eye contact with me. When he was about 2 feet away from the truck I included "Stop right there! Don't come near me!" palm up and probably a bit of a scowl too. I stopped pumping and faced him directly when he kept coming wearing a look that pretty much said what those girls said: "What? Can't help someone?" or "What's wrong with approaching you up close like I was family?" I am 6' and at that time I was @ 210. I have broad shoulders and can make them even wider when needed. He didn't stop until I started reaching back with my right hand. I left my arm in a slightly cocked position and with a little more emphasis, looking him dead in the eye and saying it a little slower and with a little deeper tone told him to back off and leave me. He did. He completely stopped as he was rounding the corner of the truck - had that look on his face the whole time - but now had a little fear mixed in and walked back to the young woman. Thing is - I had NOTHING to reach for. Not only no gun but not even a folding pocket knife or a nail clipper. I probably had a hammer in the back of the truck but it wasn't handy in that moment. That was the last day I had the mindset that I'm big enough to not be bothered by the bad guys. The fortune that there was a good size difference between us ( he was probably 160 and 5' 5" ) was not enough for me to feel safe about future possibilities. His persistence despite our obvious size difference and my clear communication had me think he was a bit crazy and had bad intentions. Also, I know I am only one guy, I am certainly not enough if there were 2, 3 or more. I had relied on my "presence" for too long. I also don't go places that ask for trouble and you'll find me in my home at 2 am, unless I'm overnighting elsewhere, but sometimes that's not enough. Most people don't get that.

I wouldn't change a thing about what I did, though, if it happens again in the future. 1. Keep eye contact and communicate that you do not want them to approach. 2. Step it up if I'm ignored. 3. Prepare for battle when they persist and are closing the gap. My rule is no stranger should approach to be within arm's reach for no good reason when I'm in an open public area. We can talk 10 feet from each other just as well.

The only difference for me next time is I will have one or two handy weapons to actually reach for if it goes further.

Giving these verbal warnings need to be loud so anyone nearby will hear them and know you were telling them to stop and not approach you. Dialing 911 is one way if alone. Sets up the dynamic that you're trying to not become a victim instead of you being seen as the aggressor. Personal experience has taught me that lesson. If your reflexes are super quick a bystander, not paying attention but within hearing range, will only witness you doing your thing after the fight starts. I have been accused of being the bad guy when I was attacked and put him down in 1 punch. Several people nearby did not witness the punch he threw just the result that I did damage and he didn't do any to me. I had to go through a brief suspicion from some of the bystanders. One good Joe stepped forward and explained what he saw and confirmed my story. It's good to let others know loudly that you are trying to stop whatever is going on. Possible embarassment is easier than going to court being accused of what the other guy actually did. I prefer to see the embarassed look on their face after I yell out loud for them to stop or that I need help. Priceless.
 
#22 ·
Women are buying guns and taking CCW classes, some of them no doubt man haters, for good reasons because of bad boyfriends and husbands and other lovers, now looking for revenge and excuses to shoot men who insult or pester or threaten them...if only because they saw it on an Oprah show.
 
#23 ·
roff,

You have pretty much answered your own question with your first post.....

If you would have had a weapon at the time... remember that there are legal guidelines for drawing your weapon, most have already been explained in previous repies to this thread.

'Imminent danger' and 'being in fear for your life' would usually justify drawing your weapon to stop a threat...... BUT.... when you said this: "I had a feeling they didnt have a gun and just wanted to scare me. I stood there waiting for them to pull out a gun," you have pretty much eliminated 'imminent danger and fear for your life in the eyes of a jury.
 
#24 ·
If one of them said, "Get the gun", then most likely neither of them had a gun on them. If one or more of them went somewhere then started back toward you, it would be draw time.

BTW, you said they were 'ladies' - don't think so, they may have been 'female', but they certainly weren't ladies!

Bobo
 
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