threat of having a gun?
This is a discussion on threat of having a gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A couple years ago before I carried I was getting gas at night (should have known better). 2 ladies asked me to spare some money ...
October 28th, 2009 11:48 AM
threat of having a gun?
A couple years ago before I carried I was getting gas at night (should have known better). 2 ladies asked me to spare some money so they can get some gas and I said I didnt have any to spare. Then they said ok thanks anyways (I think). Then they start saying stuff like I cant help anyone when they are down on their luck blah blah pretty much talking crap. I told them I work hard for my money and to shut up. One of the ladies said to the other "get the gun get the gun". Is that enough of a threat for me to pull out my gun (if i was carrying at the time)?
Forgot to finish the story.
I had a feeling they didnt have a gun and just wanted to scare me. I stood there waiting for them to pull out a gun. They didnt so I got in the car and left they started following me so I made a circle and pulled back into the gas station and they took off. I got my first gun the following week, springfield xd 9.
October 28th, 2009 11:48 AM
October 28th, 2009 11:58 AM
I would have my hand on the grip and make that very obvious... first sight of any weapon that can cause me death or serious bodily harm...well... you know what happens next
by the way... you never told us what happened after that...
October 28th, 2009 12:08 PM
Based on that I would say no. You stated that you were not in reasonable fear of losing your life.
I had a feeling they didnt have a gun and just wanted to scare me.
That said, In Colorado they would be guilty of brandishing
October 28th, 2009 12:13 PM
I was just giving my situation. If it is a situation where I was unsure if they had a gun or not is my question.
Originally Posted by treo
October 28th, 2009 12:38 PM
You're approached by multiple people, they pump up the pressure once it's clear you've declined, then one specifically makes reference to "getting the gun."
Originally Posted by roff
Is that enough to be concerned about? IMO, it absolutely is, yes. At minimum, with two people attempting to force me to cough up cash and one of them suggesting to "get the gun," I would have my hand on my gun and be dictating in simple and clear terms that they ought to rethink their stupidity and leave peacefully ... NOW. I'd want to increase distance from them. I'd want them to immediately back down and leave. I'd be yelling for someone to call for help (at a gas station, with either staff or other customers around). The rest would be dictated by their actions.
Would the statements, alone, justify drawing down on them? Almost certainly not, unless they were manifesting their intention to commit an armed robbery by going for a weapon, or splitting up to go to a car/bag/whatever. All would depend on the circumstances, what additional information was corroborating my concerns over what they just said. (Their statements, actions, body language, how tense or "juiced" they seemed to be, how close they were ... all of which could combine with their direct statement about using a firearm to force me to make it time to do more than quietly await them gaining the upper hand.)
But, I'm certain that I would not be trusting them so far as they could be kicked. At minimum, that would mean being prepared for instantly defending against what seems to be the path they've chosen.
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self defense (A.O.J.).
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the number of victims?
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October 28th, 2009 12:40 PM
Did you feel that you were in emminant danger of life or limb? Or how about rape?... If so, then you have the right to protect yourself.
Given what you said, I find it hard to believe that the above criteria where met.
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October 28th, 2009 12:51 PM
Opportunity, capability, and intent. They didn't 'brandish' or show a gun so it'd be a tough call. At the very least a hand on my holstered sidearm and the other on the cell phone to 911. Threatening would be enough to make me wanna bug out and de-escalate.....regardless of gender.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
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October 28th, 2009 12:59 PM
In a way, it's nice that they gave you a 'heads up'. I hope all BG's are stupid enough to threaten me prior to presenting a weapon.
No, I wouldn't present at this point, but I'd definately be ready to rock.
'Clinging to my guns and religion
October 28th, 2009 01:39 PM
Of the three, they didn't demonstrate "capability" --- therefore, it's an easy call: don't pull your firearm. I agree, the threat would certainly warrant my attention, but that is the point at which you put distance between yourself and the "potential" threat.
Originally Posted by goldshellback
It was nice of these two retards to let you know their intentions
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
IDPA Member & RSO, KSRA Life Member, NRA Life Member, NRA Firearms Instructor & RSO, KS CCH Instructor (www.thekasdg.com
October 28th, 2009 01:45 PM
Your first mistake was engaging them in ANY conversation...a simple, "Get away for me!" would/should have been enough.
I always put up my hand (stop) and loudly voice my disgust with someone bothering me...I want no problems, questions, or exchange with strangers in a gas station at night.
After having the conversation you did, I would have climbed into my vehicle and quickly left.
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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October 28th, 2009 02:14 PM
At most, I would have put my hand on or near my firearm, but definitely not have drawn it. But what if they reached into a purse or their waistband? Would you draw then?
October 28th, 2009 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Remember every time you draw your gun, you are probably going to have to hire an attorney.
So consider it this way. Is it worth $3500 dollars or more to draw your gun? If you life depends on it sure, thatís the reason we carry a sidearm in the first place.
But if itís just some drunk bad mouthing off at you or harassing you for money. Then get in your car and leave. If youíre on foot, then keep walking, and pay no attention to them, and head for a crowed place.
October 28th, 2009 05:31 PM
If I were a lawyer, I'd probably have a field day with that remark.
Originally Posted by roff
October 28th, 2009 06:33 PM
I agree with others that this is not the time to pull your gun. I don't even think you should put your hand on the gun in any way that could be considered brandishing.
I think telling them you didn't have any money to give them was fine. However, I think by telling them to "shut up" you are participating in escalating the situation. I wouldn't have engaged beyond my first rejection of their request. I don't take retsupt99's approach to these kinds of situation at first contact (though I think his approach is perfectly reasonable), but if they persisted after the first response, I'm probably going to follow up using retsupt99's line.
A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.
October 28th, 2009 06:42 PM
In my state, threat of imminent severe bodily harm or death must be present to use deadly force. A threat without present means to carry out that threat is not justification to use deadly force.
A little common sense tells you that pulling your weapon would have been a criminal act on your part! Sorry!
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