bad time at lunch
This is a discussion on bad time at lunch within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A lot of people 'don't realize' and aren't prepared..... until it happens. They just don't "imagine it" going that far, until it's too late.
November 9th, 2009 05:30 PM
A lot of people 'don't realize' and aren't prepared..... until it happens. They just don't "imagine it" going that far, until it's too late.
As soon as he came thru the door in confrontation mode & screaming.... I would have been telling him to stop right there and back off....
November 9th, 2009 08:56 PM
There's a lot of whackos out there.
You never know when you're going to have a close enounter.
I was at a Subway the other day when a woman started going off on the kid behind the counter.....She ordered two different "halves" and only wanted to pay for one. The woman was screaming at the poor kid and she demanded to talk to the manager. She demanded the name of the boy.
I stepped in and told the boy to call 911. The woman turned on me and got in my face. Her face was red and she was spitting as she was yelling.
It freaked her out when I said "go ahead and hit me"....and I was smiling when I said it.
When she was walking out, she turned and said to the boy behind the counter that he hadn't heard the end of this.
I gave the kid my name and number and told him to have his boss call me.
I hate bullies.
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
November 9th, 2009 09:30 PM
That pretty much sums it up. Bullies are insecure people who get their jollies and their "ego fix" by acting in a sadistic manner toward anyone that they think will tolerate it.
Originally Posted by Patti
"I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."
November 10th, 2009 12:09 AM
Good response. I never grew up getting in fights or verbal yelling matches. I worry that I would have froze (not sure how you train for this). Sounds like you did the absolute right thing.
You didn't mention it, but did you at least get out of your seat so you had a better angle if he started attacking you? Not good to be stuck in a booth anchored to the floor with a guy beating down on you.
November 10th, 2009 10:40 AM
I think you did fine. I deal with this behavior every day at work, I work with the mentaly ill with acute anger problems. Even with this illness it is not ok to threaten people. When this happens to me and it does quit often I ask the person to remain calm and that I would like them to give me my space(arms lenth) I would appologize that they feel this way and that I ment no harm, if he continued to escalate and threaten me, he would go to the floor in hold that is not pleasant. You don't have to be threatened. The least this guy should have been charged with disorderly conduct. He most likly was mentaly ill and needed some treatment, this would have been discovered with his evaluation in jail. This guy clearly threatened you and your daughter. Physical threatening is worse than verbally threatening. You would not have been in trouble. Now if this guy was 6' 7'' and 275lbs walk away.
Law Enforcement Armorer
Advice is seldom welcome; and those who want it the most always like it the least.
November 10th, 2009 11:19 AM
I think you did great.
You gave your daughter a good example of how to handle a situation
without violence if given the option.It's such a huge responsibility to carry
and it has to be the last possible option to use.Good Job
November 11th, 2009 12:24 AM
For my .02, you behaved admirably. Your heightened awareness allowed you to be ahead of the situation, not playing catch up when the knucklehead approached you in the restaurant. You checked your ego at the door and kept your emotions under control, instead of escalating the problem. You were in a crowded location at lunchtime with many innocents all around. You were ready to act, but I'd wonder if anyone else besides your daughter was cognizent of the fact that you were armed. You went home, he went with the police. You demonstrated to your daughter that her dad will defend her, but doesn't need a weapon to do so. Well done!
The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved
November 11th, 2009 07:13 AM
November 11th, 2009 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by carstensxd45
Sounds like you did well. You considered your daughter, your environment, were self and situationally aware, and didn't force anything. Let them scream when they get that stupid as it just draws unwanted attention, just be ready for the unexpected at that point.
As for the proximity, that's when you use a LEO tactic: Loud verbal commands. Very loudly tell the individual this (politely so you look like the good guy): "Sir or Ma'am, you need to back up as your aggressive behavior is making me feel threatened." Make sure others hear you so you have witnesses...just remember, if you step out of line they'll be against you.
The loud verbal command I just stated is one of the steps in articulating that you felt threatened when a shooting does occur. However, it's only practical when others can/will be witnesses and the situation allows.
November 11th, 2009 01:15 PM
I think you did fine. Given the situation you handled it very well.
You stated that he was waiting for his wife to get their food, and she returned to the truck before he got out. I wonder what she wa doing while he was in yelling at you. Was she waiting paitently for her idiot that does this all the time. I wonder if she gave him a good tongue lashing when the cops got done with him.
He mentioned that he felt you were staring at him "like a child molester". It sounds to me like he may have experience in what that feels like. He may very well be a convicted molester and was indeed staring at your daughter. Realizing he got caught brought back the guilt he feels when ever someone knows what he is.
Just my thoughts.
November 12th, 2009 12:59 AM
Aftermath of bad lunch
I really appreciate all the positive comments. Does make me feel better. To answer a couple of questions, didn't have time to call police when he exited his truck, only took about 2 seconds to enter the building, also, I never got a chance to stand up from the booth, again, it happened so fast. To be honest, I really didn't think he would actually come up to the table. Yes, definiately a learning experience.
Let me fill in the space of the police intervention. when the officers arrived, ( 1 patrolman and the Sargent on duty ), I remained inside, while they talked to him first. Then, the patrolman came in and questioned me. I presented my license and chl, and imformed him that I was armed. I explained the situation and pointed out an elderly couple in the table next to us who witnessed the entire situation.
The patrolman seemed a little taken back when he learned I was carrying. He then went outside and his Sargent came in to talk with me. He also asked me if I was carrying. I went through the whole story again. The officers switched places again. The patrolman said that the guy was worried that I was going to try to "start" something. I replied that was ridiculous since he was sitting in a running vehicle and I was sitting eating lunch with my 12 year old daughter. If he really was worried about me "starting" trouble, all he had to do was drive away. The patrolman told me they were going to excort him off the property. After he was gone, the officers did come in and apologize for the inconvenience. Never had a bit of trouble from them concerning me carrying. I told the younger patrolman that there were be no trouble while I was carrying. I wasn't going to bother him and he sure was not going to bother me. The patrolman took that the wrong way and started to scold me. However, the Sargent basically told him to "chill" out. All worked out okay. Nice guys, the police of White Oak, Texas.
November 12th, 2009 01:55 AM
carstensxd45- welcome to the forum.
A non-incident is the best kind!
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
November 12th, 2009 04:43 PM
The problem with nut-jobs like this is that they don't think in a rational way. This puts most of us (guess I can't speak for everyone here) at a disadvantage because it is impossible to know what is going through their mind. I have been involved in situations like this with my own family and I can tell you that after years of dealing with it, they still don't think rationally, so you would have never convinced this guy in a few minutes in a restaurant.
My opinion on this situation is this, you and your daughter got out without a scratch. Also, your daughter saw how to react maturely in a situation with a bully and has hopefully learned a lesson there (kids learn a lot from watching us parents). Lastly, if there was a vote after this was over, I bet that it would be unanimous that he was the jerk, so your ego should be pumped up by what everyone else thought of you vs. the opinion of a lunatic.
I am the Walrus...Goo Goo Goo Joob
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” –Benjamin Franklin
November 12th, 2009 04:53 PM
You did well. Here is what I would do. First, I see this nut coming in I put my hand on my gun, discreetly, so I can get it in play fast if I have to. Second I do not let him call the police, I call so they hear my story not his. Who knows what he was telling them. Third I do not engage him in any conversation. Snappy comebacks are not going to help. I would have simply pulled my phone and dialed 911 and said I need an officer at XXX. Let the witnesses say you were completely passive, didn't even antagonize him with smart comments when he attacked you and you had to defend yourself and your daughter if it came to that.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
November 12th, 2009 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
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