How to tell if the BG is "armed"?

How to tell if the BG is "armed"?

This is a discussion on How to tell if the BG is "armed"? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have read in a number of scenario posts, people making reference to an "unarmed" BG coming at them....or something like that. Am I missing ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    How to tell if the BG is "armed"?

    I have read in a number of scenario posts, people making reference to an "unarmed" BG coming at them....or something like that.

    Am I missing something here? How can ya'll tell if someone is armed or not? You just look at them with your Xray vision or what? Shoot, 99..9% of the people I come in contact with on a daily basis think that I am unarmed

    Point being, you never know if the potential BG is armed until it is most likely to late. I get a little miffed when some of you assume that the person is unarmed...anyway.

    Does this imply that you are less threatened by a person if you know them to be unarmed. Me personally, I am threatened by anyone who threatens me.

    I am not posing this as a rant but so that hopefully it can be reflected on, that in these scenarios you can't know who is armed or not.
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  2. #2
    Member Array 1980Maico440's Avatar
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    perhaps it is a turn of phrase rather than a statement of assumption :-)
    I would agree with you that your key word is potentially unarmed, and I like your statement of "threatened". This reminds me of of what things set off my BG radar.
    A few for example-
    Behavior inconsistent with location/situation
    Appearance inconsistent with location/situation
    Mannerisms
    and my favorite.. space.
    I really like those trainers availible with good guy bad guy situations to enforce my threat decisoon process. The last time I spent some time on one I popped a potential threat who met most of my criteria except he was pointing a cell phone at me, not a FA. oops.

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    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosights View Post
    I have read in a number of scenario posts, people making reference to an "unarmed" BG coming at them....or something like that.

    Am I missing something here? How can ya'll tell if someone is armed or not? You just look at them with your Xray vision or what? Shoot, 99..9% of the people I come in contact with on a daily basis think that I am unarmed

    Point being, you never know if the potential BG is armed until it is most likely to late. I get a little miffed when some of you assume that the person is unarmed...anyway.

    Does this imply that you are less threatened by a person if you know them to be unarmed. Me personally, I am threatened by anyone who threatens me.

    I am not posing this as a rant but so that hopefully it can be reflected on, that in these scenarios you can't know who is armed or not.

    I fully agree with you. I know for a fact the a old style box cutter is very effective and very very easy to hide and very very fast to deploy. I just assume everyone is armed but only a very very very few are a threat. Traveling around in condition yellow and being SA is my wife and my best defense. Every day a new day with new chalanges and new new judgment calls.
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  4. #4
    Member Array 1980Maico440's Avatar
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    how about a credit card with an edge sharpened?
    a walking stick?
    a bicycle air pump?
    sheez. the list is loooong. Thatswhy SA and BA (behavior analysis) is so important IMO

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  5. #5
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosights View Post
    I have read in a number of scenario posts, people making reference to an "unarmed" BG coming at them....or something like that.

    Am I missing something here? How can ya'll tell if someone is armed or not? You just look at them with your Xray vision or what? Shoot, 99..9% of the people I come in contact with on a daily basis think that I am unarmed

    Point being, you never know if the potential BG is armed until it is most likely to late. I get a little miffed when some of you assume that the person is unarmed...anyway.

    Does this imply that you are less threatened by a person if you know them to be unarmed. Me personally, I am threatened by anyone who threatens me.

    I am not posing this as a rant but so that hopefully it can be reflected on, that in these scenarios you can't know who is armed or not.
    Totally agree with you Nosights!
    I've seen countless everyday items like pencils, pens, credit cards, paper cups, keys, and so on turned into "weapons".

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    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

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    I don't have to see a weapon to be threatened. Someone coming at me in a parking lot can be seen as a threat in the way they approach, and/or ignoring a warning to stay back.
    I will take appropriate actions to repeal a 'threat'.
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; November 25th, 2009 at 09:47 PM.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    In short, you can not tell if someone is armed (in the classical sense) or not. We conceal carry and are in fact armed, with the presumption that no one else can tell that we are armed.

    I started a thread with the statement in it; "Visually unarmed" - READ nothing in their hands. I should have clarified.

    A person walking towards me with purpose and both hands empty and at their sides technically is unarmed. Still a potential threat, but unarmed.

    A person walking towards me with purpose and 1 or both hand in their pockets may be armed, or their hands are cold. A slightly bigger threat.

    A person walking towards me with purpose with one or both hands behind their back may be armed. A significant threat

    A person walking towards me with purpose with something unidentifiable in 1 or both hands may be armed. A significant threat.

    A person walking towards me with purpose with an item I consider a weapon in their hands is a threat, period.
    Sticks

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    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    I always assume that the BG is armed. That way there's no surprise.

    Armed or unarmed BG makes no difference to me.
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

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    If you shoot everyone who goes "Boo" you're gonna find yourself on the short end of the stick one day. The courts as a rule, generally frown on shooting unarmed people... no matter how scary they looked!

    For me, I pretty much have to see a deadly weapon before I shoot someone.

    Hell, No, I don't like getting punched in the face, but I ain't gonna kill a man for hitting me either! I sure as hell am not going to be sitting in the defendants chair facing life in prison trying to explain to the jury that "He could have killed me with one punch!" That dogma usually doesn't fly very far.
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    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    There is thread somewhere with signs to look for to determine if someone is likely carrying. I tried to find it and ran across another thread that found this aritcle, by Ayoob, interesting to this topic.

    Body language and threat recognition by Massad Ayoob Issue #87
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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    You don't know if a person is armed or unarmed if they don't have something in their hands or something else visible. You can assume either way and you might be right or wrong.

    I percieve most everyone I see as a possible threat, but that doesn't mean that I go for my gun just because someone might be a threat or might pull a weapon in the wally world checkout line.

    If someone is acting in a threatening way, then you better take notice and be prepared to act. However, just because someone is acting in a threatening way does not mean that you go straight to your gun. The DA is going to have fun with you (not you personally), when you shoot a person in wally world parking lot who you think has a weapon but hasn't produced it, and is just pissed because you took their parking space or whatever.

    Yes everyone may be armed, but unless you see a weapon you never know. I have yet to get myself into a situation since I started carrying which required me to even go for the grip of my gun let alone have to draw it. I certainly hope things stay that way.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    There is thread somewhere with signs to look for to determine if someone is likely carrying. I tried to find it and ran across another thread that found this aritcle, by Ayoob, interesting to this topic.

    Body language and threat recognition by Massad Ayoob Issue #87
    "A brief aside to the shooters in the audience. You know how when you see a cop, you immediately look at his holster to see what sort of sidearm he’s wearing? Have you noticed that every now and then when you do that, you get a dirty look from the officer, who may step back or otherwise change his physical orientation to you? The reason is, he has been taught about pre-assaultive behavior cues, too, and he has learned to interpret a look at his holster as a “target glance” that may indicate the person is thinking about snatching his service pistol. "

    That was a great little tidbit from the article that I have known to be true. Having been in situations when others assumed that I was arrmed, I get mighty suspicious when they are "checking me out". "Why do you care?" comes to my mind.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

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