When or when not to draw
This is a discussion on When or when not to draw within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Have no problem drawing on someone who is advancing on me with a weapon. Have thought long and hard about that BG advancing on me ...
November 25th, 2009 06:41 PM
When or when not to draw
Have no problem drawing on someone who is advancing on me with a weapon. Have thought long and hard about that BG advancing on me "unarmed". I know that fists and feet can be deadly weapons but will a jury see it that way, just a thought. Anyway, I have tried to set some personal boundries within myself. I will try to avoid, defuse a confrontation by words, walking away etc. while keeping my hand on my weapon all the time trying to put space between me and the BG. However, if I am knocked to the ground, and they continue, I will draw and fire. Is this what you call a "disparity of force"? Once on the ground, the BG definately has the upper hand. just trying to do that balancing act of not "overacting" and staying alive. I live in Texas and am not quite sure how that plays out with the Penal Code.
Give some ideas about this. I thought the whole idea of carrying was to avoid a "beat down", do you have to take a "beat down" before you can employ deadly force? Like a similar thread, confronting an "unarmed" BG approximatly your same size id daunting. Like kids who hurt themselves, all they have to miss is a couple days of school. If I hurt myself, "twist a knee" for example, it is a real problem with missing days of work, pay etc. Using the same situation, if kids get into a "fist fight", they can recover a lot easier than I can!! I am older and can't recover near as well. Anyway, ideas and thoughts are appreciated.
November 25th, 2009 06:41 PM
November 25th, 2009 06:50 PM
I think you draw to avoid a "Beat Down" and you will go to jail, at least in Michigan.
If you think that the "Whole idea of carrying was to avoid a beat down." then I don't think you should be carrying a gun.
Just my opinion.
"Don't be afraid to see what you see.
November 25th, 2009 06:54 PM
Here in FL, I'm not taking an unprovoked 'beat down'...disparity of force (in my 60's) is all I'll worry about.
Stay armed...don't pick a fight with an old man...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
November 25th, 2009 07:51 PM
Here in MN, I am fine/legal drawing (should follow up with a call to police with reason I presented my weapon), but if he still comes at you after you present your weapon, I think that is a different story.
November 25th, 2009 08:02 PM
In Florida: From what our NRA instructors said is if you're a woman and a guy just grabs your wrist, you can shoot to kill. If you're a guy and 10 guys are beating on you, ya better not pull your gun until your last breath to protect yourself. This was recently at a CCW refresher class.
Life is one long weekend!
November 25th, 2009 08:29 PM
for some reason your instructor believes that 10 guys beating you down is not a threat of serious bodily harm? does he consider spitting up blood and permanent brain damage from multiple blows a good reason for allowing someone to beat you senseless and then possibly use your gun to kill someone else a good trade off?...i can't imagine waiting until i'm too weak to draw my gun and defend myself to actually defend myself...
sorry...i would have questioned that one...
Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS
Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?
A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:
* Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
* Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.
Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.
Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?
A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.
November 25th, 2009 09:43 PM
I'm too weak to take on a young punk and too old to take a butt whipping. If threatened, I will draw and plainly state that I will shoot the aggressor if the aggression doesn't stop. Then, I'll call the LE and report the incident. And, probably my lawyer to ask his advice. Umm, probably not in that order. You know the old saying, it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
There are two kinds of people in the world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
November 25th, 2009 09:57 PM
I don't carry a firearm to be beat down and have someone else take my firearm. That said I do not look for trouble but am SA and ready.
I believe I have a much better chance with 12 judging my actions than 6 good friends caring me after 5 or 8 took turns beating me down.
NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
nor the arrow for its swiftness,
nor the warrior for his glory.
I love only that which they defend.
November 25th, 2009 11:35 PM
A beatdown? No way! I've had 3 major surgeries the past year and was just told that the lens in my eye is not attached as well as it should be. The doctor told me to avoid jolts to the head at all costs. Nope, I'm too old to fight and too crippled to run.
If I'm repeating myself, or repeating myself differently, it's probably 'cause of the brain cells I've murdered and the selective memory caused by concussions, contusions and confusions. Oh yeah, and that one night in Dallas.
ATA- Life Member
--Guns? What guns?--
November 25th, 2009 11:46 PM
In SC, you are only allowed to draw if you're justified in pulling the trigger. For that justification you must "feel yourself to be in imminent danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury." Only you can make that choice as circumstances dictate.
November 26th, 2009 12:06 AM
Here is my mindset. In order for me to use my weapon, I need to feel that I or someone else that I have chosen to defend is in danger of great bodily harm or death.
Now the concern is how well I can articulate those thoughts to LE, DA etc.
Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!
Stupidity should be painful.
November 26th, 2009 12:10 AM
So when do you think it's time to draw??? Maybe after you get 2, maybe 3 teeth kicked out. Or should you wait until one eye is gone and a rib goes through your lung??? Maybe if you just take it until you're unconscious they'll go away????
Originally Posted by Trumpetchuck
November 26th, 2009 01:27 AM
Personally if a person is advancing on me I am going to shout, "What do you want?!", as simply a sign that I am on "fight or flight" based on their actions. If they continue approaching me I will change directions. If they change and continue towards me I will shout and point them away. If they continue I will draw. If they continue I will shoot when they are 20 feet away. I will not take a chance on they shooting or pulling a knife on me. I have been in a dozen street fights throughout junior high and high school but this isn't kiddie time anymore. Getting knifed or your head stomped on until you have brain damage is worse than jail time. And if that attacker is withing 20 feet of you then that is likely. If a person continues to approach you after repeated verbal and physical warnings and even after you draw on them then they are crazy and out for blood.
Originally Posted by carstensxd45
However I still have 90 days before I even get my CCW and I will be memorizing Missouri self defense law between now and then......... if I could just find it!
November 26th, 2009 01:28 AM
Thanks for bringing up this thought provoking topic :)
November 26th, 2009 02:08 AM
To be able to use deadly force in TX, you must be in fear of death or serious bodily injury and it may not be used in response to verbal provocation alone...
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston
NRA Life Member
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