So, how would you folks approach this.

So, how would you folks approach this.

This is a discussion on So, how would you folks approach this. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a little different situation, in fact it's my reality. I carry, legally, (lightweight commander or if dress demands a S&W 638. Also a blade ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    So, how would you folks approach this.

    Here's a little different situation, in fact it's my reality. I carry, legally, (lightweight commander or if dress demands a S&W 638. Also a blade and tactical flashlight.) my wife cannot because she is handicapped with MS. If we ever face an attack, and there have been a few dicey situations, she is going to be unable to react or run. She has been in and out of a wheelchair but can currently walk slowly, has a slight cognitive imparement and is mute. I take my wedding vows about protecting and sticking it out in sickness and in health so I'm all that stands betwen her and trouble. The shame is that some crooks view the handicapped as an easy targets.

    So we all like to talk about movement, cover, shoot and move, etc but now if you're going to protect this person the truth is she can't move very fast, react very fast, yell for help or call 911. She can't really even handle a spray can of OC.

    I've had to spend alot of time thinking on this and have come to some general conclusions, which of course will probably all fly south if it ever all comes down, but you have to develop some basic tactics as a starting point for training. So how would you folks approach the most likely scenario of low light, parking lot or street, and trouble who has not backed down when verbally confronted? Or worse yet multiple threats in the same situation?

    Eric


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array czman2006's Avatar
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    I wish I had the expertise to advise you but I don't. I'm sure some others on this forum will offer good advice. But, I do know one thing from reading your post --- Your wife has a hell of a good man by her side.
    "Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1

    USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    well on first thought , minimise her exposure by leaving her at the door of the store/restraunt ect.. and you retrieve the car bringing it to the more secure area , avoid situations where you are reliatively isolated ect.. and if avoidance doesnt work respond with overwhelming agressive force once a situation begins to deteriate , with a responsibility like your wife , or young children i might add you cannot let yourself " get behind the power curve" and be forced to play catch up in a confrentation .. many will prob have other thoughts and some better i am shure. Hats off to you for your devotion and willingness to sholder the burdon tho , many wouldnt in so many ways
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  4. #4
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    Sorry, Cruisr, wish I had something for you. You face a dilemma most of us don't... that of being almost anchored in a fight. Could try to draw the fight away from your wife, but that leaves her exposed to a second person you don't know about. But if you stay near, she's in the middle of it. Something that would definitely take some thought.

    The only thing that immediately comes to mind is possibly talking to an attorney well-versed in self defense law. You'd want to know if it comes down to a shoot situation, would the law consider you as having a "handicap" (sorry, I couldn't think of a better word) and more leeway in any requirement to retreat.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  5. #5
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    But, I do know one thing from reading your post --- Your wife has a hell of a good man by her side.
    I think the above comments, when you're with her and you're out and about, are excellent. Do you also have any concerns for the "at home" side of the equation? Are you at home with her 24/7, or is she home alone a lot, or do you have caregivers?

    If she's at home alone - I'd suggest you give that piece of your puzzle some consideration too. Maybe consider cordless phones, cell phone back-up, intercom to doors, remote lock/unlock on doors, an alarm system with a panic button, maybe a large therapy dog? Hope I'm not "butting in", but my sister was in similar situation, but her husband wasn't 1% of the man you are!

    Your wife has a great spouse, and you have a great wife! I sense a lot of deeply felt love between the two of you. Good luck.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; April 29th, 2006 at 01:05 PM.

  6. #6
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    I do think, tho not a legal eagle, that her difficulties would for sure make you a more obvious ''protector'' - it makes sense.

    I applaud you for your dedication and can only think that when and wherever possible, you are all but by her side as her protector.

    Your base line will be like ours - ''fear of life/bodily harm'' but times 2. She is after all your dependent.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Like everyone else, I believe your wife has a ******* man for a husband. Good advice above and doubt I could offer much more, but, personally, I would be very careful about the areas I took her to, particularly at night. My initial thought would be that I would station myself directly in front of her to shield her in case things went bad, but when I really thought about it maybe that would not be the best thing to do. My natural inclination would probably be to wait less time trying to de-escalate the situation before acting. I also believe her situation would help in your legal defense if anything did happen....
    Bumper
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  8. #8
    Member Array chiefs-special-guy's Avatar
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    my mother-in-law was severely restricted, and she lived with us for 6 years until her death. I pushed her wheelchair about, and so on, so I have some idea what you are facing.
    Planning is the only answer. When I had to move her in/out of her van, I was vulnerable. Not much you can do about it. But your wife probably could contribute to yall's security, if only by using an air horn or the like, to attract attention and maybe give you a bit of time. But the best plan involves minimizing the risk of problems, period, since you cannot really focus on the threat with her depending on you like that.
    Care for yourself also- work like this is a special ministry, I believe. "What you do to the least of these.."
    God Bless
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  9. #9
    Member Array St Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefs-special-guy
    my mother-in-law was severely restricted, and she lived with us for 6 years until her death. I pushed her wheelchair about, and so on, so I have some idea what you are facing.
    Planning is the only answer. When I had to move her in/out of her van, I was vulnerable. Not much you can do about it. But your wife probably could contribute to yall's security, if only by using an air horn or the like, to attract attention and maybe give you a bit of time. But the best plan involves minimizing the risk of problems, period, since you cannot really focus on the threat with her depending on you like that.
    Care for yourself also- work like this is a special ministry, I believe. "What you do to the least of these.."
    God Bless
    Amen!
    Dittos!

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies folks. We do alot of "situational avoidance". But you do have to deal with life. I do things like drop and pick up at the grocery store entrance, she waits for me inside. But sometimes we have times when we have to walk parking lots. It really is a special ministry.

    As a Christian I do take my wedding vows seriously. I remember when she was first diagnosed they sent us to a "counselor", what a crock. She told us that 90% of married people diagnosed with MS will be divorced within 5 years so just get used to the idea. I told her she was crazy to even say such a thing, even if true. She said she just wanted to prepare us for reality. Take a hike lady. It's been ten years and we are as close as ever and one rule we had when we got married 24 years ago was that no matter what, the "D" word was not in our vocabulary.

    My plans for her include a dog who is good company but that has shown he dosn't back down in a threat. A cell phone she can text me on and my shop is less than three miles from where we live in a motor home. We live in an RV park where people know who belongs there and know her limits. Her cell phone 911 locater is turned on and the police told me that if she dials 911 and leaves it on they have a good chance of locating her fairly quick ESPECIALLY if it's on and no one is talking.

    If it all goes wrong one day though my plan is to have her hit the ground prone and I'm going to have to stand there and have it out with little movement. It sucks but it's really more of a body guard role than a defense role at that point. Years ago I knew a gent who did body guard work in high threat situations for insane amounts of money. He was one of the few truly dangerous people I've known in my life and just be thankfull he's on the right side of the law! I asked him how he could command the prices he got and in his usual dry, poker faced style, he said "because none of my clients have ever been injured and I've never killed the wrong person." Thought he was joking untill I talked with a mutual friend about it, he wasn't. He'd protected everything from world leaders on down in pretty tight situations. When we talked defense I took it to heart and now I'm in the body guard role just a little older. He said you have to be calm, avoid tunnel vision and do the usual verbal commands, forcefully applied. But at the split second of escalation or sign of closing distance or weapons presentation you "explode". You take them on with everything you have, no mercy no quarter until it's over. I realised what he was capable of when our friend saw him in action. He said the guy went from average joe to swift death in a split second while guarding a governor. It was over before the police escort knew what had almost happened. I used to train in knife fighting and you accepted that if you had to use it you would probably get hurt but you would be the survivor and I guess that will be my final option if it ever happens. I pray fervently that it won't but prepare in case it does.

    Eric

  11. #11
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    Your already careful advance planning combined with avoidance of likely trouble spots will go a long way toward keeping you both safe.

    Not sure that I can add much that you've not already thought of.

    BTW: Would she able to shoot a .22 Rimfire revolver at all ?

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    The problem is her cognitive symptoms leave her unable to "proccess" information correctly under stress. This can leave her confused in a stressful setting. Not a good idea with a firearm I'm afraid.

    Eric

  13. #13
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    Oh OK...Thanks for the explanation on that.
    I was thinking that a .22 Double Action Only revolver loaded with standard velocity cartridges would be extremely easy to operate but, I sure did not factor in the much added confusion of a guaranteed extremely stressful situation.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    You've indicated that you are already doing most of the things you can do to minimize risk. You've gotten some good advice, here, too. A service dog for protection for her would be something to consider. A good canine could be a force multiplier for you. Without the mobility that gives us more options for avoidance and movement toward a more advantageous position, you have to put on a ruthlessness as protector that tells a potential BG you aren't worth the trouble. Most of us have a luxury of options you do not. If I were you, I would be trying to adopt a ruthless, no-quarter mindset as protector. This is an action thing, as well as a mindset thing, and like another post said, you need to know your self-defense laws and be prepared to operate at the extreme limits of what you are allowed to do. The BG is expecting that you and your wife can't escape quickly. I would counter that with an unexpectedly violent and pitiless defense. If you don't have the option of moving, then you have to be overwhelming. JMO, of course.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    I guess one good thing is we live in FL. With the expanded Castle doctrine we have absolutely no requirement to flee while anywhere (legally that is) at anytime. If we are faced with a forcible felony we have the right to self defense including deadly force. Even better, if the situation is ruled justifiable we are exempt from a civil suit. At least the politicians here are finally doing something right in that area! If we could just get this idea working nationwide. I know in the past we have been "panned" by some shady lookers when she was in a wheelchair. I always adopted my "drill instructer" demeaner and openly carried a legal blade (this was pre-ccw in a not so friendly carry state). I guess they didn't like what they saw. But with all the meth and crack these days I'm not so sure we can always count on "rational" crooks, if there is such a thing.

    Eric

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