Carrying on Campus - What would happen if.... - Page 4

Carrying on Campus - What would happen if....

This is a discussion on Carrying on Campus - What would happen if.... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; @ SIGP250: Your story is another one that is sad, but very common. I have never understood this about so manny people. When I buy ...

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 59 of 59
  1. #46
    Member Array HUSTLEnomics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    148
    @ SIGP250: Your story is another one that is sad, but very common. I have never understood this about so manny people. When I buy a firearm I have always been the type to want to talk about it to others. It takes way the element of surprise. If that person or someone they tell tell decides they want to rob you, now you have given them a slight edge. They now know they must disarm you, and possibly where you will carry the firearm on your body. Your firearm should be your secret. Once you find out the restrictions for firearms at your job, thats the last time you discuss the topic with employers(never fellow employees). Carry within the rules, discreetly, and never tell anyone.

    __The more that people break the law when carrying there firearms, the less likely we will be able to gain the confidence in the general public. If the public sees that we cant follow the current rules of concealed carry, then why should they trust us enough to extend our legal right to carry in more places? Gaining trust in the Gun Carrying American Citizens will be a lot easier once we all learn to do the right thing regarding the law. Even when the law is viewed as unfair. Trust in The NRA & other organizations, and back your politicians that support our cause. These are examples of the ways I'd go about setting the good example, and working to establish change. We will eventually will get the publics to trust us enough that legal carry restrictions will continue to loosen. Breaking the law, with even good intentions will have the opposite effect.
    Don't Knock The HU$TLE! When all else fails, I have a HU$TLER's Ambition! When the economy goes to crap, I will maintain and u wont! The hunger I have to survive, and your inability to handle the struggles we have ahead is what seperates you & I!


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,021
    Quote Originally Posted by HUSTLEnomics View Post
    In this scenario the kid is below age to receive a concealed carry license. By the law he is wrong. He is not a lunatic looking for trouble, but he is indeed braking the law.

    He does not represent the majority of the persons who carry weapons legaly, but the media & anti-gun people will spin it that way.
    Sad but true.

    It's why I have such a hard time accepting the basic lunacy of malum prohibitum, as opposed to malum in se.

    It's not merely unfair, as you suggest. It's "wussification" of an entire people, the criminalizing of otherwise upstanding acts.

    Agreed, that we must work within the confines of the legal chains placed on us until such time as we can help people see that the chains themselves are helping to drive crime and criminality to all corners of our society. Must be cognizant of "the look" of it, sad to say. That, in itself, is another sign of the degeneration as well. Ah, me. What a world we're making for ourselves.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #48
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,343
    Quote Originally Posted by HUSTLEnomics View Post
    @ SIGP250: Your story is another one that is sad, but very common. I have never understood this about so manny people. When I buy a firearm I have always been the type to want to talk about it to others. It takes way the element of surprise. If that person or someone they tell tell decides they want to rob you, now you have given them a slight edge. They now know they must disarm you, and possibly where you will carry the firearm on your body. Your firearm should be your secret. Once you find out the restrictions for firearms at your job, thats the last time you discuss the topic with employers(never fellow employees). Carry within the rules, discreetly, and never tell anyone.

    __The more that people break the law when carrying there firearms, the less likely we will be able to gain the confidence in the general public. If the public sees that we cant follow the current rules of concealed carry, then why should they trust us enough to extend our legal right to carry in more places? Gaining trust in the Gun Carrying American Citizens will be a lot easier once we all learn to do the right thing regarding the law. Even when the law is viewed as unfair. Trust in The NRA & other organizations, and back your politicians that support our cause. These are examples of the ways I'd go about setting the good example, and working to establish change. We will eventually will get the publics to trust us enough that legal carry restrictions will continue to loosen. Breaking the law, with even good intentions will have the opposite effect.
    This guy was only an aquantice of mine but a frind of my wife. He would often find 9mm at Walmart stores and give my wife for me. Usually 500 or so rounds for what he paid for it.

    The challenge might have been a thrill for him.

    I don't know. I feel that there are some cops out there that should probably not be cops. When Concealed carry permit holders think they are cops, they are totally mistaken and in for a rude awaking if or when they play cop an shoot someone.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  4. #49
    Member Array Ivy08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    If it is legal to carry on a college campus, as it is in most states, however it is against the colleges' policy, the most they can do is ask you to leave. In some states trespass signs hold weight(such as OH I believe), so you may be charged anyway, but in PA, "no weapons allowed" signs hold no legal weight.
    Interesting. If I had the [realistic] option of choosing a different graduate school, I would. However, at some point - I guess graduate study, really - you're forced to pick from a limited pool of schools that not only are well-ranked for your field, but have experts there who can cater to your chosen specialty...and then by the time you've narrowed it down to that small pool, the likelihood of carry being legal is slim, unless you get lucky. And then you end up either deciding to break the rules/law (depending) and carry, or taking the risk and walking around campus unarmed and hoping you get through your 2-4 years of study without incident. It just sucks.

  5. #50
    Member Array Ivy08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    60
    And yeah, interesting dimension having the kid not of legal carry age...adds a totally different set of issues to the hypothetical situation. I would bet that the outcome of the situation is entirely, wholly dependent on the environment and how the media spins it. If he was in a predominately gun-friendly state and the local media spun him as a hero, he would be let off with a slap on the wrist for violating campus rules. No college wants bad PR.

    College campuses really are tinderboxes of emotion, pressure, angst, and stress - I am surprised (and thank goodness I am) that there aren't more Virginia Tech-type massacres. I am always paranoid about surveying each classroom/building I have a course in for means of escape.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    OK I didn't read the 5 pages but I think

    1 he would loose his permit
    2 he would be kicked out of the school
    3 he would be thanked by many grateful souls
    4 he would still be charged by the DA

    Sometimes the law's hands are tied depending on what bureaucrat is pulling the puppet strings. At the very best he would have the top 3 but not the 4th. Breaking the law is breaking the law.



    Be a good victim.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    englewood, fl
    Posts
    1,751
    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    So then some crazy decides to do a copycat of the Virginia Tech shooter. The crazy has already dropped several people when he corners a pretty large group, let's say 20+ people. They're screaming and panicking and can't go anywhere, but the carrying student is in the group.

    So now our hero takes the only logical action; he draws and kills the shooter.

    :
    Quote Originally Posted by HUSTLEnomics View Post
    [B]
    _If I'm this kid, and carrying illegally on campus, I am not gonna step to the head of the class to be the hero. Because I know it would b too much of a hassle to get out of the trouble that I would be in afterwards. Even If I got off completely, I might not ever be able to attain a legit concealed carry license once I came of age. The way I handle it is hide. If I have no choice, the gunman has entered the room, and making his way directly at me. If I cant run or jump out a window or something, then & only then would I chose to draw my weapon(revealing I was breaking the law). Now at this point, as the gunman approaches me then I'd gladly pay the above mentioned consequences for saving my own life.

    ]
    in the scenario you are cornered in a group of 20 people and from the looks of it there is nowhere to go...nowhere to hide...hence cornered....the last thing i'm thinking about is legalities in a situation like this...if thats a consideration he wouldnt have been carrying at all...i dont care if i'm carrying an illega explosive device at that point...if i can use it to stop the crime in progress it is being used...

    the odds of ever having to use a concealed firearm are pretty slim...not using it in a situation where you are liable to get shot in the hope that you will be able to carry later in life is a bigger gamble than not being able to carry for the rest of your life...which may only be seconds in this situation...

  8. #53
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Red82 View Post
    Well in the state of VA he'd be fine if he was old enough to CC. As long as it wasn't VCU. He probably wouldn't be allowed back on campus ever, but he'd be ok.
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

    It's a State-by-State thing.

    Under Virginia law:

    A) At VCU he will have broken an Administrative Code Law LIS > Administrative Code > 8VAC90-10-50

    He could be treated the same as one who cheated on a test.

    8VAC90-10-50. The right to academic freedom and to equal educational and occupational access.

    The university is committed to providing an environment conducive to academic freedom, free inquiry, and equal access to educational and occupational opportunities. The principle of academic freedom requires all persons to respect another's dignity, to acknowledge another's right to express differing opinions, to cultivate and to cherish intellectual honesty, and to promote freedom of inquiry and expression. It is therefore the policy of the university that no act of any member of the university community shall serve to restrain or inhibit access to opportunities or the exercise of these freedoms. To that end, no person, either singly or in concert with others, shall willfully:

    1. Discriminate against another person on a basis not reasonably related to the educational or job functions involved on the basis of race, ethnicity, sex, religion, color, creed, disability, sexual orientation, marital status, and age.

    2. Harass or intimidate any person.

    3. Cause physical injury or threaten any person with force or violence.

    4. Have in his possession any firearm, other weapon, or explosive, regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued, without the written authorization of the president of the university. This restriction does not apply to persons whose duties lawfully require the possession of firearms or other weapons.

    5. Disrupt or prevent the peaceful or orderly conduct of classes, lectures, meetings, or other university functions, or interfere with the lawful freedom of other persons, including invited speakers, to express their views.

    6. Falsify or forge an official university record or document, or file documents with the university with the intent to mislead.

    7. Lie, cheat, steal, or plagiarize. Violations of lying, cheating, plagiarism, and stealing will be adjudicated through this chapter or other applicable documents. Student academic violations of lying, cheating, plagiarism, and stealing will be referred to the VCU Honor System for adjudication.

    8. Violate any duly authorized university rule or regulation issued pursuant to a specific university function, for example, regulations applicable to social events, the library, or university hospitals.

    9. Incite others to commit any act which has been herein prohibited.

    10. Bring charges against a member of the university community that are spurious, or that are intended primarily to harass or maliciously defame, or that are designed to intentionally overburden the adjudicatory system.
    B) If any other public college, he has not broken a law, only school rules. May be expelled.

    C) At a private college it could be the same as if in a posted mall, store, etc. -- e.g., a CHP does not trump the right of owners of private property to prohibit guns on their property. It has no direct penalty and equates to "Proper golf attire required" signs, "Shoes and shirts required" signs, "No wet bathing suits" signs, etc.
    Last edited by DaveH; December 15th, 2009 at 04:09 PM.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  9. #54
    Member Array Goodtime Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Central Kansas
    Posts
    61
    Regarding this subject, I submit this video link for your consideration...

    YouTube - nutnfancy's Channel
    Obligation of Carry by Nutnfancy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIHDHZf1TA

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,021
    ^ "Gun-free" zones. Pretty simple. In reality, they are victim-disarmament areas where resistance has been stripped from upstanding people ahead of time, to ease the way from criminals. That's certainly not the stated purpose, as no honorable human would ever claim to desire such a thing. And yet, it's the only real result of such policies: making it easier for criminals to execute crime; and making it nearly impossible for upstanding citizens to survive crime in such places.

    Gun-free zone proponents: Do you think the murdered few were better off because of your disarmament policy? Better off dead, eh? Happy now??

    The guy in that video is a bit stiff, but his points are right on the money.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    ^ "Gun-free" zones. Pretty simple. In reality, they are victim-disarmament areas where resistance has been stripped from upstanding people ahead of time, to ease the way from criminals. That's certainly not the stated purpose, as no honorable human would ever claim to desire such a thing. And yet, it's the only real result of such policies: making it easier for criminals to execute crime; and making it nearly impossible for upstanding citizens to survive crime in such places.

    Gun-free zone proponents: Do you think the murdered few were better off because of your disarmament policy? Better off dead, eh? Happy now??

    The guy in that video is a bit stiff, but his points are right on the money.
    Thats why you carry a sword in a gun free zone.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    509
    Ok, you need to figure out what the actual law is in your state. Everything else is pointless. I can tell you what the law seems to be in Florida if that's where you are.

    - Mere possession of a firearm in your story is only a 2nd degree Misdemeanor.
    - Discharge of a firearm in self-defense is not a crime.

    I'm not sure (and the law doesn't seem to say) whether the second point nullifies the first or not, but the worst case scenario is IN FLORIDA, you could only be charged with a 2nd degree Misdemeanor, and maybe with nothing at all.

    Now, as for the university's reaction... Who cares? You'll find another college, and you'll be alive to attend it.

    Mel
    The Ethics of Liberty
    LewRockwell.com
    The Survival Podcast
    How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,021
    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    Now, as for the university's reaction... Who cares? You'll find another college, and you'll be alive to attend it.
    Agreed, on the alive-but-unemployed part. No contest, there, should it actually become necessary.

    But a faculty member that now has zero references from a university after 6yrs can find it tough to hire into another university, if essentially that 6yr period becomes a "black hole" that is unverifiable with references, or the only references are "No comment" or "he/she carried firearms onto campus in direct violation of agreement to do otherwise." A good number will care about that. Some won't. Either way, as we all know, each person needs to decide for himself or herself.

    Because of the lunacy described here, I strongly support absolute extension of state preemption law to disallow suspension, expulsion, forced leave, firing or any other punitive actions against any student, staffer or faculty member at any school that acts within state law in such regard. But then, we're quarter-backing it, here. Here, it's safe. Out there, educational and professional careers can be impacted by the decision. Until it changes in law and actual reactionary and punitive actions are stopped, it'll remain what it is: dangerous ground for folks rushing history.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #59
    Member Array Goodtime Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Central Kansas
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Agreed, on the alive-but-unemployed part. No contest, there, should it actually become necessary.

    But a faculty member that now has zero references from a university after 6yrs can find it tough to hire into another university, if essentially that 6yr period becomes a "black hole" that is unverifiable with references, or the only references are "No comment" or "he/she carried firearms onto campus in direct violation of agreement to do otherwise." A good number will care about that. Some won't. Either way, as we all know, each person needs to decide for himself or herself.

    Because of the lunacy described here, I strongly support absolute extension of state preemption law to disallow suspension, expulsion, forced leave, firing or any other punitive actions against any student, staffer or faculty member at any school that acts within state law in such regard. But then, we're quarter-backing it, here. Here, it's safe. Out there, educational and professional careers can be impacted by the decision. Until it changes in law and actual reactionary and punitive actions are stopped, it'll remain what it is: dangerous ground for folks rushing history.
    It's even more difficult to be hired from the black hole in the cemetery.

    I could be mistaken, and laws likely vary from state-to-state, but it's my understanding that former employers are very limited in what they can say during an employment verification inquiry. About all they can legally do is verify that the person did work there, and perhaps the period of employment and the position/title. Of course, what actually happens and what is supposed to happen is often two different things, and if one is as notorious as someone like, say, Ward Churchill, well, then you are just basically screwed. But on the other hand, I imagine that there are a few conservative private schools that would be more than happy to hire a sheepdog professor--I bet that they are really rare!
    Obligation of Carry by Nutnfancy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIHDHZf1TA

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Question about incident with teacher carrying and using on campus..
    By gatorsmash in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 24th, 2008, 11:34 AM
  2. Several St. Louis radio hosts support students carrying on campus
    By grady in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: February 19th, 2008, 06:51 AM
  3. Carrying on Campus
    By Geo2020 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: November 26th, 2006, 08:00 PM
  4. Mayor busted for carrying on college campus and church
    By blueyedevil in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: November 16th, 2006, 09:52 AM

Search tags for this page

carrying illegally on campus
,

concealed carry scenario on campus

,
illegally carrying on campus
,
what would happen if grasshoppers had machine guns
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors