Sorry honey, I can't shoot....

This is a discussion on Sorry honey, I can't shoot.... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I went Christmas shopping for the wife today. I am very slow to get around right now since I am on crutches. I had knee ...

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Thread: Sorry honey, I can't shoot....

  1. #1
    Member Array Keith92555's Avatar
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    Sorry honey, I can't shoot....

    I went Christmas shopping for the wife today. I am very slow to get around right now since I am on crutches. I had knee surgery on 11/2 and have only been able to put weight on it for less than a week so I get along verrry slowly. It also makes it very difficult to carry anything (except IWB of course ).

    The wife knows what she is getting, she just doesn't know how much I am spending. She has some pearl earrings and a ring and wants a matching pearl on a chain. I managed to find her one at the mall for a little over $500.

    So as I left the jewelry store with my little bag I happened to notice a guy taking a keen interest in me. I was getting a lot of attention anyway since I am gimping around on crutches but he stayed behind me for a looooong time. This was especially strange since I was moving really slowly. After he disappeared, my paranoia kicked in full bore and suddenly EVERYONE is watching the guy on crutches with the jewelry store bag held by a string on his pinky a little too closely for my comfort. I walked against the wall with the bag on the wall side to make it more difficult for a snatch-and-grab to happen.

    After a while I needed to cross a large open area so I put the bag under my shirt and kept on my way. I kept vigilant all the way out to my truck and got home without incident.

    After I got home I related the incident to the wife and how paranoid I felt. She asked, "Did you have your gun?" I told her that I always carry my gun and of course I had it with me. However, I also told her that a gun would have done me little good since someone running away from me with her necklace would not be putting my life (or anyone else's for that matter) in danger. I told her that in a situation like this lethal force would not be an option.

    She has asked me recently to help her to get her permit to CCW in Californa. While I really want her to be able to protect herself, I am not sure that I should trust her judgement in situations like this. I don't think she understands the rules for lethal force adequately at this point. I am also not too sure that she would pay enough attention if I sent her to a training class for CCW either. She is the type who has to have everything explained for her in detail and ad nauseum and is too impatient to read instructions or study/train for herself.

    So what say you all? I am a little torn at this point. Should I help her to get the permit or get her some pepper spray and a taser?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with helping her get her permit, just because she has it does not mean she had to carry - it certainly gives her the option! My opinion after being on the losing ond of a taser and OC spray is that OC is a more miserable experience, but the taser is FAR more incapacitating - but does require more training for some models. Other wise time may be the factor, she may need more of it to figure out the legal issues revolving around concealed carry. I dont envy you the position that you are in, in fact I may be in it one day soon. Good luck!
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Arko's Avatar
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    Start the process. She can learn as she goes (and waits). Point her here. Consider some books from Mas Ayob, and videos from Clint Smith.
    She'll be fine, especially since she doesn't HAVE to cary just because she gets the permit.
    "Don't Tread on Me"

  5. #4
    Member Array NosaMSirhC's Avatar
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    If she wants her gun permit by all means help her get her gun permit. You trust her enough to marry her, you can work out the do's and dont's of the gun thing with some formal training and reading.

    Maybe next year the 2 of you can get a joint "non denominational winter holiday gift" in the form of training at Front Sight, Blackwater or CCJA.

    Be Safe,

    NosaM
    "In a crisis, you will not rise to the occasion, but you will default to the level of your training."

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    I am not sure that I should trust her judgement in situations like this.
    Don't be too sure. The course will include a section of where and when you can carry and where and when you can shoot, AND the penalties involved if you violate those W & Ws. If necessary, most Instructors will take time to explain everything in detail. When you go from unable to enabled, your thoughts and ideas change a lot. Have her take a "basic handgun" course, and the CWP class. Before and after, practice with her and teach her. Read the law word for word if need be. If you have a LEO friend, ask him to talk to her (be better if the LEO were a woman) The CWP class "diploma" is good for a while, so she doesn't have to run out the next day and apply.

    I am also not too sure that she would pay enough attention if I sent her to a training class for CCW either.
    That's simple - either she pays attention or she doesn't pass the test at the end.

    Pepper spray and TASERs work - to point. Someone blitzed on meth or angel dust or PCP may not even feel the TASER. If he's wearing a heavy coat, the darts may not penetrate. OC works if there's little wind and you don't get it on yourself. For me, either allows the attacker to get too close. If your first shot or spray doesn't work, you don't have time for a second before he's on you.

    is too impatient to read instructions or study/train for herself.
    Unfortunately, if she isn't willing to train, NO type of self defense weapon will be suitable for her.

  7. #6
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    Get a Picture of the lethal force triangle, and post it somewhere visible for her to see.

    P S Sorry , my pic is not loading from photobucket



    "After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it."
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    Last edited by oneshot; December 13th, 2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: redo pic posting
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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I don't know your wife and will not second guess your judgement. I do know that I trust my wifes judgement more than I trust the vermin walking the streets. My wifes ability to protect herself is more important to me than my ability to protect myself.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  9. #8
    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
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    IMHO, I would say to help her get the permit. ASk if they will let you sit in the class with her. See how she reacts to the different information. Talk about it with her after the class.
    Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
    -TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith92555 View Post
    I told her that I always carry my gun and of course I had it with me. However, I also told her that a gun would have done me little good since someone running away from me with her necklace would not be putting my life (or anyone else's for that matter) in danger. I told her that in a situation like this lethal force would not be an option.
    With examples like this you are teaching her about appropriate responses to different levels of aggression. She will remember these little jewels of wisdom when the time comes.

    She has asked me recently to help her to get her permit to CCW in Californa. While I really want her to be able to protect herself, I am not sure that I should trust her judgement in situations like this.
    I promise that I will try to be nice but I have to say that this and your following statements do strike a rather deep, irritable cord with me. Working behind a gun counter has taught me that men both love and hate a woman with a gun. SOOO many men have said they wished their wives were like me but then they drag their wives into the shop and berate them and tell them that they aren't strong enough, smart enough, technically savvy enough or have enough judgment to shoot, own or carry a gun. The discouragement makes them wonder why they even bothered to come along much less why they should get into guns.

    It's almost a self-fulfilling prophesy. Because she may not be there now doesn't mean she never will be or can never be. You telling her and acting like she can not or never will have that kind of judgment is going to make her shrug and think, "Why bother?"

    Even if you NEVER say the words, "I don't trust your judgment," your actions can go a LONG way in convincing her that you don't think she's "ready."

    I don't know you and I don't know your wife but I know that we all start somewhere and we all have the potential to learn and grow. Your good ol' boys who grew up shooting and hunting on their Daddy's ranch and/or had some military training to help them along on situational awareness and proper response may be years ahead of a housewife who hasn't fired a gun in her life, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be encouraged to defend herself by any means necessary. She has the same rights as anyone else.


    I don't think she understands the rules for lethal force adequately at this point. I am also not too sure that she would pay enough attention if I sent her to a training class for CCW either.
    Again, you know your wife better than anyone here but you just don't know what she will choose to pay attention to or not. All you can do is tell her how important it is that she pay attention, send her to the class and hope it all sinks in. Even if she never carries some of it will sink in and will benefit her.

    She is the type who has to have everything explained for her in detail and ad nauseum and is too impatient to read instructions or study/train for herself.
    I am the same way (as far as the having everything explained to me). I am very inquisitive and like details.. lots of details. It drives everyone nuts but that's the kind of person that I am.

    And again, you just never know what she will find important and if you never encourage her to try you'll never know what she will learn and what she won't.

    So what say you all? I am a little torn at this point. Should I help her to get the permit or get her some pepper spray and a taser?
    Before I answer this I have to ask you to consider how you would feel if the tables were turned. What if she were on here asking if she should help you get your permit or not? How would you feel? How would you feel if she was telling a group of people that she thought you didn't possess the judgment or learning skills to defend yourself?

    I, for one, would be ticked off!

    Talk to her about these things. Give her some scenarios. Let her know how important you know this is. Ask her if she truly understands what she is asking.

    Do what my husband did with me. He looked me straight in the face and asked, "Are you willing to kill to defend your own life? We aren't talking about maiming or scaring but killing. Are you ready to take a life to save your own?"

    If she can't answer with a sober yes than, no, a gun is not for her. But she should and could still benefit from defensive classes, perhaps some spray or something similar though going over different scenarios and proper responses is still a must no matter what she's using as a means of self defense.

    Yes, there are some people out there who are carrying guns that probably shouldn't be but they have the same rights as the rest of us. Your wife has the same rights you do and if she wants to defend herself than why stand in her way?

    Help her. Encourage her. Believe in her. If not you, then who?

    There have been so many women who I have helped through the years and it is sad to see them sneaking into the gun shop on lunch breaks and saying, "I had to do this now because my husband doesn't think I should be doing this."

    I had one woman run crying from the range because her husband was so harsh with her. While her husband was around the corner talking guns with someone else I took her back in the range and gave her a few pointers, told her she was doing a good job and she told me a very sad story about marriage to a man who both wants her to be a gun gal but also does nothing but condemn her for not being good enough or getting her the instruction she needs. It was very frustrating for her.

    I'm not saying you are like that because I don't know. What I'm saying is that I have seen it again and again and it makes me irritated to see husbands trying to think for their wives when it comes to their self defense.

    I understand you are the head of the home and want to protect your family and that sometimes means protecting them from themselves but sometimes it means trusting them as well. If she feels she's ready for the responsibility and is willing to go to the class and do the work then I say help her.

  11. #10
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Get her permit and train her. I am sure we all did stupid things with our 2 ton weapon at the age of 16 and have since learned better. Train Train her
    Led By Love Of Country

  12. #11
    Member Array RA229's Avatar
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    Get her the permit if she is interested, the instructors will get the message to her. She will learn more from them, you will be farther ahead.
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    You could always start lobbying for a change in the laws to allow for deadly force in the protection of jewelry containing pearls.

    Or, get her in a training class and have a practice partner too.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    With examples like this you are teaching her about appropriate responses to different levels of aggression. She will remember these little jewels of wisdom when the time comes.



    I promise that I will try to be nice but I have to say that this and your following statements do strike a rather deep, irritable cord with me. Working behind a gun counter has taught me that men both love and hate a woman with a gun. SOOO many men have said they wished their wives were like me but then they drag their wives into the shop and berate them and tell them that they aren't strong enough, smart enough, technically savvy enough or have enough judgment to shoot, own or carry a gun. The discouragement makes them wonder why they even bothered to come along much less why they should get into guns.

    It's almost a self-fulfilling prophesy. Because she may not be there now doesn't mean she never will be or can never be. You telling her and acting like she can not or never will have that kind of judgment is going to make her shrug and think, "Why bother?"

    Even if you NEVER say the words, "I don't trust your judgment," your actions can go a LONG way in convincing her that you don't think she's "ready."

    I don't know you and I don't know your wife but I know that we all start somewhere and we all have the potential to learn and grow. Your good ol' boys who grew up shooting and hunting on their Daddy's ranch and/or had some military training to help them along on situational awareness and proper response may be years ahead of a housewife who hasn't fired a gun in her life, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be encouraged to defend herself by any means necessary. She has the same rights as anyone else.



    Again, you know your wife better than anyone here but you just don't know what she will choose to pay attention to or not. All you can do is tell her how important it is that she pay attention, send her to the class and hope it all sinks in. Even if she never carries some of it will sink in and will benefit her.


    I am the same way (as far as the having everything explained to me). I am very inquisitive and like details.. lots of details. It drives everyone nuts but that's the kind of person that I am.

    And again, you just never know what she will find important and if you never encourage her to try you'll never know what she will learn and what she won't.



    Before I answer this I have to ask you to consider how you would feel if the tables were turned. What if she were on here asking if she should help you get your permit or not? How would you feel? How would you feel if she was telling a group of people that she thought you didn't possess the judgment or learning skills to defend yourself?

    I, for one, would be ticked off!

    Talk to her about these things. Give her some scenarios. Let her know how important you know this is. Ask her if she truly understands what she is asking.

    Do what my husband did with me. He looked me straight in the face and asked, "Are you willing to kill to defend your own life? We aren't talking about maiming or scaring but killing. Are you ready to take a life to save your own?"

    If she can't answer with a sober yes than, no, a gun is not for her. But she should and could still benefit from defensive classes, perhaps some spray or something similar though going over different scenarios and proper responses is still a must no matter what she's using as a means of self defense.

    Yes, there are some people out there who are carrying guns that probably shouldn't be but they have the same rights as the rest of us. Your wife has the same rights you do and if she wants to defend herself than why stand in her way?

    Help her. Encourage her. Believe in her. If not you, then who?

    There have been so many women who I have helped through the years and it is sad to see them sneaking into the gun shop on lunch breaks and saying, "I had to do this now because my husband doesn't think I should be doing this."

    I had one woman run crying from the range because her husband was so harsh with her. While her husband was around the corner talking guns with someone else I took her back in the range and gave her a few pointers, told her she was doing a good job and she told me a very sad story about marriage to a man who both wants her to be a gun gal but also does nothing but condemn her for not being good enough or getting her the instruction she needs. It was very frustrating for her.

    I'm not saying you are like that because I don't know. What I'm saying is that I have seen it again and again and it makes me irritated to see husbands trying to think for their wives when it comes to their self defense.

    I understand you are the head of the home and want to protect your family and that sometimes means protecting them from themselves but sometimes it means trusting them as well. If she feels she's ready for the responsibility and is willing to go to the class and do the work then I say help her.

    Definitely what Lima said!!! Support her...Schedule some basic training for her with a "reputable" instructor prior to taking her CCW class and I think you will find out she will assimilate more from a stranger than from you, based on your preconceived assumption that you don't trust her and doubt her abilities, etc etc. Believe me, she will sense antagonism and will balk at doing anything the way she should just to prove you wrong. Good Luck...JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #14
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
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    Cool

    Kieth92555
    Get on your knees and thank God that you have a wife with a warrior mindset. Most of the guys here whose wives will not carry or defend themselves would LOVE to be in your position.
    Get that gal trained well and enjoy knowing that you have a life partner with such a natural sheepdog instincts. You are a lucky man!

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno View Post
    Get on your knees and thank God that you have a wife with a warrior mindset. Most of the guys here whose wives will not carry or defend themselves would LOVE to be in your position. ...
    ABSOLUTELY! (I'm the guy on my knees next to you, BTW)

    And go back and re-read Lima's post, every word! She said it very, very well.

    Perspective time: good for you for wanting to protect your wife, too.
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