I've been wondering...

This is a discussion on I've been wondering... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Even tho In Texas it would be a legal shoot,I'm with Sixto,I've never got more than 20,00 worth of groceries in one bag,I'm not taking ...

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Thread: I've been wondering...

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Even tho In Texas it would be a legal shoot,I'm with Sixto,I've never got more than 20,00 worth of groceries in one bag,I'm not taking a life over groceries,now if he threatens deadly force and it becomes an armed robbery then he will probably regret his actions
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  3. #17
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    I'm with Sixto on the not shooting... but I think the situation could be diffused by confronting the person... that way you'll know his intentions and it puts you in control, by forcing his hand...
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    if youve got that much time to evaluate the situation and have tried elusive maneuvers unsuccessfully you should confront...even if its just a look...waiting for something to happen isnt in your favor...turning toward him takes away his element of surprize and probably takes his attention off your bag...

    if hes following that closely you are probably going to surprize him by turning toward him...you gain upper hand...

    i cant tell you how many times ive stared down a rowdy teen or young twenty and had em back down and walk away after they terrorized others with their bs loud mouth...people doing something they are not supposed to dont generally want firm attention...

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Good responses all and food for thought.

    The "Danger Word" is especially a good one, as is the notion of turning and asking "Can I help you?" (Or something more direct)

    Thank you all!
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

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  6. #20
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    Your state's laws will outline the legality of drawing or not but... my moral compass is this: unless iminent threat of severe bodily harm or death is present, my firearm (deadly force) remains holstered.

    I might have to open a can of whoop*** and I might just let the BG take my bag-o-junk, but my weapon is never going to be used to frighten, warn or threaten.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  7. #21
    Member Array Rayman's Avatar
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    The bag would probably rip and all the crap would go flying anyways. If he didn't decide to run by then, he'd get punched in the face for making me drop my crap.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    It is a tough call--is he just a grab and go guy or out to do you and yours bodily harm? If it is a grab and go and you never saw a firearm, you had better not shoot him, particularly as he is running away. If you never saw a firearm and there is a "tussle", it better be an "imminent threat" tussle. Tough call--but the scenario has very real overtones to it--certainly a very real "what if". Think I'll go back and reread responses---good thread with something to learn.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    In SC you can not shoot to protect property. You may only shoot if you BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE or ARE in imminent danger of losing your life or of serious bodily injury. The first condition is the operative here - what you believe. A better way of handling it (if you have time) would have been:
    1. As soon as you identify he's following you, turn and face him. Make eye contact.
    2. Drop the bags so you may move more freely.
    3. Slide your strong hand under your cover garment and grip your weapon. DO NOT DRAW or expose your weapon. At this point, you don't know what he's up to.
    4. Make a "stop" gesture with your weak hand and command "STOP! STAY BACK!" You can add "CALL 911", too.
    5. If his demeanor seems menacing (remember, you have your family to protect, too), draw into the "low ready" position and command "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT YOU!"
    6. If he continues to approach in the face of your shown weapon, I'd consider him a threat to me and my family. You can not let him get close enough to engage you physically.

    If he's after merchandise to hock, merely confronting him may make him back off. He was counting on a quick grab from an unknowing hand. If he's after more, the appearance of your gun may make him back off. He doesn't want a gunfight with an armed, determined citizen. If he continues to approach into your drawn weapon, I'd probably think he's after something else and has something hidden that I don't know about yet and makes him think he can get away with whatever he's planing.

    Now, I realize these actions may be walking a thin legal line, but the penalty for being wrong is often deadly. If he's advancing into a drawn weapon - he's a threat. He may be drunk or doped up or crazy - that doesn't make him less of a threat.

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    Exactly as you presented the scenario, no.
    You didn't mention any visible weapon, signs of him reaching for a weapon, or any physical attack against you or anybody else.
    Sure it could easily turn into an attack, and I would be prepared, if things did escalate to a point that I was in fear of grave bodily harm. At this point drawing is not warranted.
    Yes i agree with Rugergirl.... but lets look at the example... what BG wants to steal your Bed Bath and Beyond bag? not saying they won't because they will take anything... but having a family around does make it different... drawing as the BG is distracted and then if he makes the wrong move next..... lights out....
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  11. #25
    Member Array G30shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Your state's laws will outline the legality of drawing or not but... my moral compass is this: unless iminent threat of severe bodily harm or death is present, my firearm (deadly force) remains holstered.

    I might have to open a can of whoop*** and I might just let the BG take my bag-o-junk, but my weapon is never going to be used to frighten, warn or threaten.
    For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like you have a justifiable threat of deadly force under Florida Statutes either (i.e., don't shoot). One of the other posters mentioned eye contact and that is a very good way to announce to the perp that you are more alert then the average mall walker. Communicating the potential threat to at least your wife is also a very good idea. If the situation does escallate you both want to respond quickly and in a coordinated (predetermined if possible) fashion. JMO

    PS If the stuff you're carrying is from China, leave it behind or give it to the perp - it probably contains lead anyway and so in stealing it from you he/she can suffer from that other kind of lead poisoning ... sorry, weak attempt at humor.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    In SC you can not shoot to protect property. You may only shoot if you BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE or ARE in imminent danger of losing your life or of serious bodily injury. The first condition is the operative here - what you believe. A better way of handling it (if you have time) would have been:
    1. As soon as you identify he's following you, turn and face him. Make eye contact.
    2. Drop the bags so you may move more freely.
    3. Slide your strong hand under your cover garment and grip your weapon. DO NOT DRAW or expose your weapon. At this point, you don't know what he's up to.
    4. Make a "stop" gesture with your weak hand and command "STOP! STAY BACK!" You can add "CALL 911", too.
    5. If his demeanor seems menacing (remember, you have your family to protect, too), draw into the "low ready" position and command "STOP OR I WILL SHOOT YOU!"
    6. If he continues to approach in the face of your shown weapon, I'd consider him a threat to me and my family. You can not let him get close enough to engage you physically.

    If he's after merchandise to hock, merely confronting him may make him back off. He was counting on a quick grab from an unknowing hand. If he's after more, the appearance of your gun may make him back off. He doesn't want a gunfight with an armed, determined citizen. If he continues to approach into your drawn weapon, I'd probably think he's after something else and has something hidden that I don't know about yet and makes him think he can get away with whatever he's planing.

    Now, I realize these actions may be walking a thin legal line, but the penalty for being wrong is often deadly. If he's advancing into a drawn weapon - he's a threat. He may be drunk or doped up or crazy - that doesn't make him less of a threat.
    This sounds like the winner...

    I am just not willing to place my family's safety in jeopardy just because I cannot tell if he is after my bagged junk, or after something much more sinister.

    This response seems to handle all the issues and addresses them in a manner that I would be comfortable in holding to while at the same time keeping the legality of the situation on my side. Thanks!

    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

    Convenire Volui Spectatus

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