Unarmed Attacker-What do you do?

This is a discussion on Unarmed Attacker-What do you do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bark'n You are very wise in believing that you should not feel secure presenting the case to a jury. I can tell ...

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Thread: Unarmed Attacker-What do you do?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    You are very wise in believing that you should not feel secure presenting the case to a jury.

    I can tell you in most jurisdictions, juries all across the United States take a general disdain to shooting unarmed people, period!

    There would have to be very obvious and compelling evidence, that there was a clear disparity of force for you to shoot an unarmed person who was just verbally threatening you before any physical damage has been done by the assailant.

    For you to shoot an unarmed man and walk away unscathed without a mark on you will likely get you some serious prison time.

    Shooting an unarmed man when you end up spending a week in the hospital with a concussion with a fractured face and peeing blood for a week makes a pretty compelling case for disparity of force. However shooting him prior to receiving any serious injuries I think most juries are going to come down very hard on you.

    JMHO
    Excellent advice.

    I am convinced that too many have little understanding of the consequences of shooting someone. Accordingly, from their posts they are too ready to shoot.

    Regards, Jerry

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Disparity of force legally. To be honest....fear for your life is just that. If you want options for the unarmed attacker, look into Judo, OC spray, or kicking them where the jingles jangle and run away very fast so you can dial 911. Shooting an unarmed attacker may save your life for sure, but under most circumstances, it could be very uncool.
    +1. This is why you need more than one defensive option. As I have seen someone post here many times, "when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail." Pepper spray is an excellent choice for these situations. If someone is beating you and they are not armed as best you can tell, they can take your weapon in the struggle. The goal is to stop the attack and get the heck out of dodge. Spray the eyes and scram.
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  4. #18
    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Cornered Cat - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy

    You have to decide if there is ability, opportunity, and jeopardy of death or grave bodily harm and act accordingly.

    From the linked article:

    "If a weapon is not present, ability may be represented by something the courts call disparity of force...Disparity of force is figured out on a case-by-case basis, taking in the entire set of circumstances. Generally speaking, disparity exists:
    ...
    •When one participant has become so badly injured that he is unable to physically defend himself from a continued violent assault"
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    If your only tool is a hammer, every problem is a nail.
    Nope. I'll grant that it does bring the relatively limited utility of the tool into stark relief. The mere fact it's all you've got doesn't change the fact of when it has utility. The mere fact it's all you've got hardly means you'll wilt and use it to stop "gnats," as implied.

    Remember, as well, that most of us have a highly useful tool at our disposal, if we're bright enough and trained enough: our brains.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Armed and visbly armed are two different things.

    Be less concerned with what you are being attacked with and more about what effect it is having on your. It does not take very many blows to the head from fists or against a hard surface to render you unconscious and unable to defend yourself or retain your weapon. Maybe you both appeared unarmed, no visible weapons showing. But as you get knocked to the ground your jacket flies back and he sees your gun. You are losing consciousness.

    Recently a Davenport IA officer shot and killed an attacker who after punching him in the face, followed him to the ground and took a chunk out of his face.

    Here is a pic I found on the net, how you respond to this, would you be willing to do this to survive?


  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Be less concerned with what you are being attacked with and more about what effect it is having on you.

    It does not take very many blows to the head from fists or against a hard surface to render you unconscious and unable to defend yourself or retain your weapon.
    Exactly.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array surefire7's Avatar
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    I would think disparity of force would come into play especially by a jury of peers.
    Most posters here are male I would guess but being female, the disparity of force is even more in play. (Also being a female over 50). If I truly felt in danger of my life, I would not have a problem with using deadly force.
    "Good decisions come from experience;
    experience comes from bad decisions"

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    If I am attacked by an 'unarmed attacker" my first reaction will be to gain distance, weather that be a swift kick to the jewels or a knee. As I retreat in distance I'll be assessing the situation, as best I can in a split second. How the attacker reacts and responds will clue me in as to my next move. Do I return with a knife or the chunk of brick on the ground, or do I pull my firearm and get ready for fireworks?

    I pray I never have to actually make that determination, but I am as mentally prepared for any choice I am forced to make later.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  10. #24
    Member Array bruce272's Avatar
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    In New York State…

    If my memory serves me well, I believe that NYS Penal code covering "use of deadly force" requires the "shooter to prove that he/she made a reasonable attempt to "break off" the confrontation with the other person(s) whether they are armed or not. I guess this means "running away" or something of the sort.

    Well, I'd rather run than face the cost of defending myself in court against a charge of Man-2 or somesuch penality.

    I think? that the only place (instance) one doesn't have to "wimp out" is if you're in your home. I think that a clause (not Santa) relates to "home is your castle" doctrine and you have right to cap the BG in, or breaking into, in your home.

    Any NY Lawyers are invited to respond, just keep it short!!!

    Bruce

    BTW, In NYC, no matter what, consider yourself screwed.
    "Western civilization didn't make all men equal,
    Samuel Colt did"

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Most of the time disparity of force is discussed it is male vs female which as stated might not be a huge concern to many formites. Disparity of force male vs female will not change during an altercation but able vs disabled can and most likely will.

    Most will agree that someone who cannot stand or walk is disabled. If you get knocked backwards and bust your a$$ and cannot get up or hit your head you may be disabled, if even for an instant. And a snap shot in time is what causes decisions to be made. If you are knocked to the ground and the attacker jumps on top of you I think a reasonable person would conclude that they intend to do more harm.- George

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    By attack I meant that the guy jumped me and is beating the snot out of me. Strictly physically attacked, not verbal.

    Being attacked means being.....attacked. That violence, and if I'm in fear of my life........well........

    Me getting jumped and having the snot beaten outta me, armed or not, would be bad for him AND me.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  13. #27
    Member Array Thegear234's Avatar
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    I will do everything in my power to create distance between the attacker and myself. Lethal force is my absolute last resort until either all else fails or or any other action just won't work. (Like using pepper spray on an armed assailant for instance) So I will create distance and if they are truly unarmed as in have nothing in their hands then I will spray them and get as far away as possible if they persue and have a weapon then I guess I have to do what I have to do.
    Live in yellow or die in white.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    People are going to do what they are going to do.

    There are no clear cut answers.
    And there folks is the answer.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  15. #29
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    Someone threatening this 6 decade old fellow is going to get a warning...loud, unfriendly, and clear...if the threat continues then I will assume that the attacker has a weapon.
    Remember, I HAVE a weapon and do not want an attacker to become armed with my weapon. So when attacked, I must assume that if I do not end the threat, my attacker WILL be armed.
    This is one of those, "You had to be there situations."
    I'll back up, yell my commands so others know that I do not want trouble, but the warning to stay back is clearly heard...I will not let a stranger advance on my person without a 'defending' response.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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