This is a discussion on Unarmed Attacker-What do you do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bark'n You are very wise in believing that you should not feel secure presenting the case to a jury. I can tell ...
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Cornered Cat - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy
You have to decide if there is ability, opportunity, and jeopardy of death or grave bodily harm and act accordingly.
From the linked article:
"If a weapon is not present, ability may be represented by something the courts call disparity of force...Disparity of force is figured out on a case-by-case basis, taking in the entire set of circumstances. Generally speaking, disparity exists:
•When one participant has become so badly injured that he is unable to physically defend himself from a continued violent assault"
A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.
Remember, as well, that most of us have a highly useful tool at our disposal, if we're bright enough and trained enough: our brains.
Armed and visbly armed are two different things.
Be less concerned with what you are being attacked with and more about what effect it is having on your. It does not take very many blows to the head from fists or against a hard surface to render you unconscious and unable to defend yourself or retain your weapon. Maybe you both appeared unarmed, no visible weapons showing. But as you get knocked to the ground your jacket flies back and he sees your gun. You are losing consciousness.
Recently a Davenport IA officer shot and killed an attacker who after punching him in the face, followed him to the ground and took a chunk out of his face.
Here is a pic I found on the net, how you respond to this, would you be willing to do this to survive?
Exactly.Be less concerned with what you are being attacked with and more about what effect it is having on you.
It does not take very many blows to the head from fists or against a hard surface to render you unconscious and unable to defend yourself or retain your weapon.
I would think disparity of force would come into play especially by a jury of peers.
Most posters here are male I would guess but being female, the disparity of force is even more in play. (Also being a female over 50). If I truly felt in danger of my life, I would not have a problem with using deadly force.
"Good decisions come from experience;
experience comes from bad decisions"
If I am attacked by an 'unarmed attacker" my first reaction will be to gain distance, weather that be a swift kick to the jewels or a knee. As I retreat in distance I'll be assessing the situation, as best I can in a split second. How the attacker reacts and responds will clue me in as to my next move. Do I return with a knife or the chunk of brick on the ground, or do I pull my firearm and get ready for fireworks?
I pray I never have to actually make that determination, but I am as mentally prepared for any choice I am forced to make later.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
If my memory serves me well, I believe that NYS Penal code covering "use of deadly force" requires the "shooter to prove that he/she made a reasonable attempt to "break off" the confrontation with the other person(s) whether they are armed or not. I guess this means "running away" or something of the sort.
Well, I'd rather run than face the cost of defending myself in court against a charge of Man-2 or somesuch penality.
I think? that the only place (instance) one doesn't have to "wimp out" is if you're in your home. I think that a clause (not Santa) relates to "home is your castle" doctrine and you have right to cap the BG in, or breaking into, in your home.
Any NY Lawyers are invited to respond, just keep it short!!!
BTW, In NYC, no matter what, consider yourself screwed.
"Western civilization didn't make all men equal,
Samuel Colt did"
Most of the time disparity of force is discussed it is male vs female which as stated might not be a huge concern to many formites. Disparity of force male vs female will not change during an altercation but able vs disabled can and most likely will.
Most will agree that someone who cannot stand or walk is disabled. If you get knocked backwards and bust your a$$ and cannot get up or hit your head you may be disabled, if even for an instant. And a snap shot in time is what causes decisions to be made. If you are knocked to the ground and the attacker jumps on top of you I think a reasonable person would conclude that they intend to do more harm.- George
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
"Sometimes when you're making gumbo, people just show up.", Leah Chase
I will do everything in my power to create distance between the attacker and myself. Lethal force is my absolute last resort until either all else fails or or any other action just won't work. (Like using pepper spray on an armed assailant for instance) So I will create distance and if they are truly unarmed as in have nothing in their hands then I will spray them and get as far away as possible if they persue and have a weapon then I guess I have to do what I have to do.
Live in yellow or die in white.
Someone threatening this 6 decade old fellow is going to get a warning...loud, unfriendly, and clear...if the threat continues then I will assume that the attacker has a weapon.
Remember, I HAVE a weapon and do not want an attacker to become armed with my weapon. So when attacked, I must assume that if I do not end the threat, my attacker WILL be armed.
This is one of those, "You had to be there situations."
I'll back up, yell my commands so others know that I do not want trouble, but the warning to stay back is clearly heard...I will not let a stranger advance on my person without a 'defending' response.
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member