Center Mass and One in the pipe

This is a discussion on Center Mass and One in the pipe within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So this is just a continuation of conversations I've had with guy's I work with but I think I've won them all over. Lets see ...

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Thread: Center Mass and One in the pipe

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Mic's Avatar
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    Center Mass and One in the pipe

    So this is just a continuation of conversations I've had with guy's I work with but I think I've won them all over. Lets see how many on hear agree on my take.

    The only way to carry is with one in the chamber, period. If you've made the determination that drawing your gun is justified, then some one will get shot. I consider my Glock like a samurai sword, if it comes out it will draw blood. I personally like the Glock because it is the safest weapon in the world (you have to pull the trigger to make it fire) and there are no external safety lever, button or switches to slow down the process, or get snagged on clothing.

    Center mass every time, the whole "shoot to disable" scenario will land you in court defending your freedom. Once again the Samurai sword, if it comes out, your gonna die, I've determined (opportunity, ability Treat) that Im justified to shoot, in the end it will be my word against your wo...wait your dead, just my word!

    There are many bumper stickers out there like "Don't do the crime if you cant serve the punishment" and " Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but in the end it all comes down to being able to convince the legal system that you were afraid for your (family) life and had no escape, you don't need someone else version to complicate things.

    Thoughts.......
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


    Molôn Labé!

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    You are correct with having one in the pipe all the time. Its just a hammer otherwise.

    COM yes...No questions about that, but its COM of the part of the BG showing. We need to make that clear.

    The bumper stickers are stupid and just advertise.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Mic:

    On another thread I read that in 86% of cases just the presents of the firearm stopped the BG's action with out every shooting anyone.

    To have the mind set that if I pull this Glock someone is going to to be double taped is setting your self up for possible VERY VERY VERY POUR judgment call.


    Don't be gun happy just to be gun happy, if you have to shoot shoot to defend!!!!!!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  5. #4
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    Here are a few thoughts:

    Overall, you might want to loosen up a little on some "absolutes." For example, "the Glock... is the safest weapon in the world." Safer than... a revolver? Safer than the S&W M+P or Springfield XD, both of which have "safe action" triggers like the Glock, but which also have external safeties? Safer than a bolt-action rifle?

    "Center mass every time." OK, that's great IF center mass presents itself. If someone is shooting at you from behind cover, exposing just the shooting arm and half a head, will you wait for the shooter's COM to present itself before taking a shot?

    Always a round in the chamber, by all means.

    "...the whole "shoot to disable" scenario will land you in court defending your freedom. Once again the Samurai sword, if it comes out, your gonna die, I've determined (opportunity, ability Treat) that Im justified to shoot, in the end it will be my word against your wo...wait your dead, just my word!"

    Wow... THAT kind of thinking WILL land you in court.

    Prosecutor: "Is is not true, Mr. Mic, that you had on several occasions told friends and associates with whom you work that IF you pulled your gun, SOMEONE WOULD DIE??? And didn't you also post that same sentiment on the Internet? I'd like to introduce People's Exhibit 17, a transcript of Mr. Mic's posts on blahblahblahdot com."

    Your mindset should be that your weapon is a tool to help you get your butt to safety, period. You draw and fire ONLY to stop a threat or an attack - no more. Is your Glock so powerful that you can count on just one shot to put a potentially lethal aggressor down? Is it likely that you might have to fire numerous shots into him? So if he's down and bleeding, no longer a threat, are you going to finish him off because that's the "code of the Samurai" - someone has to die?

    And isn't there a chance that the presence of a drawn handgun may, by itself, interrupt a potential assault on you, without any shots being fired? Do you really, really want to fire your gun at another human being just because you had to draw it?

    I don't mean to be unduly harsh, but I do believe you may be a bit caught up in the enthusiasm of being an armed civilian. You've taken the first big step, namely arming yourself, but now you have to take a step or two back and realize that any dangerous situations you will most likely encounter will rarely be black or white, but somewhere in the many millions of shades of gray.

    I strongly suggest you read Mas Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" from cover to cover, then sign up for an LFI-1 course. 40 hours of the legal, moral and ethical implications of the use of deadly force.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You are correct with having one in the pipe all the time. Its just a hammer otherwise.

    COM yes...No questions about that, but its COM of the part of the BG showing. We need to make that clear.

    The bumper stickers are stupid and just advertise.
    +1 to that.

    Mic, very well laid out thought process. I like your samurai sword analogy, reinforces the mindset that a weapon is to be presented in only the most dire of circumstances.

    I would contend that, given time/distance/etc, there should be one last check between draw and fire to see if the threat has been mitigated. Looking down the business end of a gun can have a surprising calming effect on all involved. If not, COM until the threat has ended.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    -Herbert Spencer

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    You don't have to fire every time you draw your weapon. And I speak from experince.
    Semper Fi

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I understand the concept and thought behind "if I have to pull my gun I am going to shoot the BG" and I would tend to agree with you in most situations, but I agree with some of the previous responders that there will always be shades of gray when it comes time, and absolutes can get you in trouble.

    I think that you probably know this, but talking in absolutes can become a habit, and when the cops show up and you say "I drew my gun so I had to shoot him" it could get you in a lot of trouble even if you were completely justified. Make sure you give some thought to what you will or will not say after a shooting. Generally, I would like to talk to my lawyer.
    Walk softly ...

  9. #8
    Member Array MsXD9's Avatar
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    Mic said it all!
    MsXD9


    [B]"When seconds count police are minutes away"!

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Here are a few thoughts:

    Overall, you might want to loosen up a little on some "absolutes." For example, "the Glock... is the safest weapon in the world." Safer than... a revolver? Safer than the S&W M+P or Springfield XD, both of which have "safe action" triggers like the Glock, but which also have external safeties? Safer than a bolt-action rifle?

    "Center mass every time." OK, that's great IF center mass presents itself. If someone is shooting at you from behind cover, exposing just the shooting arm and half a head, will you wait for the shooter's COM to present itself before taking a shot?

    Always a round in the chamber, by all means.

    "...the whole "shoot to disable" scenario will land you in court defending your freedom. Once again the Samurai sword, if it comes out, your gonna die, I've determined (opportunity, ability Treat) that Im justified to shoot, in the end it will be my word against your wo...wait your dead, just my word!"

    Wow... THAT kind of thinking WILL land you in court.

    Prosecutor: "Is is not true, Mr. Mic, that you had on several occasions told friends and associates with whom you work that IF you pulled your gun, SOMEONE WOULD DIE??? And didn't you also post that same sentiment on the Internet? I'd like to introduce People's Exhibit 17, a transcript of Mr. Mic's posts on blahblahblahdot com."

    Your mindset should be that your weapon is a tool to help you get your butt to safety, period. You draw and fire ONLY to stop a threat or an attack - no more. Is your Glock so powerful that you can count on just one shot to put a potentially lethal aggressor down? Is it likely that you might have to fire numerous shots into him? So if he's down and bleeding, no longer a threat, are you going to finish him off because that's the "code of the Samurai" - someone has to die?

    And isn't there a chance that the presence of a drawn handgun may, by itself, interrupt a potential assault on you, without any shots being fired? Do you really, really want to fire your gun at another human being just because you had to draw it?

    I don't mean to be unduly harsh, but I do believe you may be a bit caught up in the enthusiasm of being an armed civilian. You've taken the first big step, namely arming yourself, but now you have to take a step or two back and realize that any dangerous situations you will most likely encounter will rarely be black or white, but somewhere in the many millions of shades of gray.

    I strongly suggest you read Mas Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" from cover to cover, then sign up for an LFI-1 course. 40 hours of the legal, moral and ethical implications of the use of deadly force.
    everything thing i was thinkin' and them some....
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Here are a few thoughts:

    Overall, you might want to loosen up a little on some "absolutes." For example, "the Glock... is the safest weapon in the world." Safer than... a revolver? Safer than the S&W M+P or Springfield XD, both of which have "safe action" triggers like the Glock, but which also have external safeties? Safer than a bolt-action rifle?

    "Center mass every time." OK, that's great IF center mass presents itself. If someone is shooting at you from behind cover, exposing just the shooting arm and half a head, will you wait for the shooter's COM to present itself before taking a shot?

    Always a round in the chamber, by all means.

    "...the whole "shoot to disable" scenario will land you in court defending your freedom. Once again the Samurai sword, if it comes out, your gonna die, I've determined (opportunity, ability Treat) that Im justified to shoot, in the end it will be my word against your wo...wait your dead, just my word!"

    Wow... THAT kind of thinking WILL land you in court.

    Prosecutor: "Is is not true, Mr. Mic, that you had on several occasions told friends and associates with whom you work that IF you pulled your gun, SOMEONE WOULD DIE??? And didn't you also post that same sentiment on the Internet? I'd like to introduce People's Exhibit 17, a transcript of Mr. Mic's posts on blahblahblahdot com."

    Your mindset should be that your weapon is a tool to help you get your butt to safety, period. You draw and fire ONLY to stop a threat or an attack - no more. Is your Glock so powerful that you can count on just one shot to put a potentially lethal aggressor down? Is it likely that you might have to fire numerous shots into him? So if he's down and bleeding, no longer a threat, are you going to finish him off because that's the "code of the Samurai" - someone has to die?

    And isn't there a chance that the presence of a drawn handgun may, by itself, interrupt a potential assault on you, without any shots being fired? Do you really, really want to fire your gun at another human being just because you had to draw it?

    I don't mean to be unduly harsh, but I do believe you may be a bit caught up in the enthusiasm of being an armed civilian. You've taken the first big step, namely arming yourself, but now you have to take a step or two back and realize that any dangerous situations you will most likely encounter will rarely be black or white, but somewhere in the many millions of shades of gray.

    I strongly suggest you read Mas Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" from cover to cover, then sign up for an LFI-1 course. 40 hours of the legal, moral and ethical implications of the use of deadly force.
    Ding ding, we have a winner.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Mic's Avatar
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    OK we'r getting close to what Im looking for. I agree GASMITTY did a superb job in his response, and I sent him a personal thank you.

    Now for more; this conversation started after a real life indecent and you will not believe the outcome.

    For now, just waiting for the right response, thanks to all, keep em coming
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


    Molôn Labé!

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Like a lot have said,if the threat stops as you are presenting your gun,then you are no longer justified to shoot,just cause you kill the BG doesn't mean there aren't witnesses that saw the whole incident and in todays society there are surveillance cameras everywhere.that samurai sword mentality will get you a cell in short order.Since your reference to bumper stickers I'm gonna assume the intent of the story is to prove intent and how in court bumper stickers on your vehicle that show a propensity to shoot first ask questions later will be used against you in court.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I consider my Glock like a samurai sword, if it comes out it will draw blood.

    If the stars and gods all align and you ever get your one in a million shot at a defensive shooting, you had better pray that it isn’t even a little bit shaky or the DA isn’t up for re-election because he/she is going to crawl up your sigmoid colon W/ a microscope and when he/she finds your posts here detailing your intent to “go in guns blazing and shoot to kill” He’s going to paint you as “The Brave One” and throw your behind under the jail.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    He’s going to paint you as “The Brave One” and throw your behind under the jail.
    That is if you are successful In your mission to inflict death...
    A gunfight is a two way street that sometimes leads to a dead end
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    First to Op Mic,
    Welcome to the board, as other have posted the sight of the gun may be enough to send BG running. I hope and pray that I never have to pull my gun. Just remember that you only shot enough times to stop the threat. No more no less.

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