Someone grabs your wife
This is a discussion on Someone grabs your wife within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think, and this is an average restaurant on an average day, that there would quickly be more than one person standing by the time ...
May 13th, 2006 02:21 AM
I think, and this is an average restaurant on an average day, that there would quickly be more than one person standing by the time anything happened. I know I'd definitely be up out of my seat if this was going down around. Not necessarily gonna get right into it, but three or four guys standing and staring at you, even if you're drunk will quickly make you rethink your decision.
I was in a Chinese restaurant one Valentine's Day and the restaurant had grossly overbooked the evening. Reservations were more like a waiting list. There was one older guy who was drunk as a skunk and started yelling at the host. It didn't take but a minute before there were two or three bystanders escorting this gentleman out of the establishment. Now, this guy was like 65, so it was gently out. My point, is I don't think you'd be alone.
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May 13th, 2006 02:21 AM
May 13th, 2006 02:22 AM
In a big voice i'd say "hey honey why is that guy grabbing you, do you want him to stop?" Of course she would say yes (real loudly and in a scared and helpless voice. Now more than likely the guy is going to let her go because a lot of people are going to be looking. But lets say he's had too many fuzzy navals.
I would then say in a very loud voice" Ladies and gentlemen, this man has a hold of my wife against her will and will not let go. I will now demand he lets her go because i am afraid for her life. If he doesn't, I want one of you fine folks to call the police because we have a problem!"
Now everyone in the entire resturaunt is looking and there is no question who the BGs are. There is almost no way the guys will continue their little game. But lets say they had a bunch of meth for desert and they are feeling brave.
Now I have given them every chance to do the right thing. The fact that a whole resturaunt is watching and they still are in moron land means that they are deranged and dangerous.
At this point I would put my left hand out in a defensive gesture and put my hand on my gun yelling "Listen buddy you have 3 seconds to release her or i will shoot! Someone call the police!!"
I have no problem pulling my gun on them at this point. They have as far as im concerned kidnapped my wife and I am prepared to respond in kind. I could give a rats ace about the no guns in a bar at that point. They forced me into the bar, believe me i didn't want to go in. Whats more, i have been as PC as can be expected and have a crap load of witnesses on my side.
DISCLAIMER... More than likely I would not pull my gun, god help me if it came to that. Hopefully a army of men would be behind me at that point and i would'nt have to. After all the crazy guy still has my wife as a sheild and i don't trust my shot in stakes that high. Hmm another play it by ear situation.
"In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N
May 13th, 2006 11:59 AM
I'm surprised that by now no one has said, "Let him have her!"
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell
May 13th, 2006 12:39 PM
I would NOT give a verbal command to the BG to release her. It could turn into more of a spectacle with yelling and threats, etc. The witnesses would be privy to too much information to analyze and report later.
I would keep it simple and to the point: Meeting his force with force of my own... like an elbow to the side of the head.
NO ONE assaults my family
"We must remember that one man is much
the same as another, and that he is best
who is trained in the severest school."
~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
May 13th, 2006 02:01 PM
im thinking when the guy didnt release my loved one and his fellow dirt bag steped between me and her he woulda lost the use of a leg i would just reacted buy kicking hi knee backwards so i could concentrate on the one that held my wife with out worrying about his friend or a punch to the trought think that was said all ready but i would try to get the odds aginst me down just my opin
May 13th, 2006 06:22 PM
1.BG grabs wife
2.Wife is being hurt
3.Bg not let go of wife
4. I draw weapon and draw down on BG
5.Joe Bystander becomes a problem
6.Joe Bystander is a conspirator/accessory to the battery
9. Officer, I need to speak to my attorney before I will be able to speak with you.
10. Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.
May 13th, 2006 10:45 PM
Hmmm.... Tough one. My head and centuries of breeding say that nobody roughs up our women family, friends or...well...any other woman in our presence. If I am in the judicial district where I live or any of the ones adjoining it, a kick to BG-2's knee and a grasp of BG-1's trachea will be okay. My preference is that my wife have the skills to handle it.
Frankly, since my wife's ex-husband kept her prisoner for six months with all the attendant physical / sexual abuse, I have taught her how to extricate herself from most grasps. I'm about 6' / 240# and she can make me turn loose in a hurry...now. She's very good at going for the nose, the point of the chin (shove that jaw into the zygomatic arches!), the shins, the insteps, temples, and eye balls...not to mention testicles. She's good with the heel of the hand or the elbows...and that's just to get to her OC. Heck, I wouldn't have to excalate the situation. Given her previous experience she'd be so scared and angry that she'd do enough escalation for the both of us!
Seriously, the best lesson I think that I have taught my wife is to be aware. When we met she thought I was nuts because I strove to always be aware of the room and everyone in it. I made eye contact with everyone I walked by. I take strange paths to avoid compromising positions. I always glance over my shoulder. Now, she understands why...and does it herself.
My martial arts instructor from forever ago always said that a warrior should only get into fights of his choosing. Getting caught unawares is one's own failure. Once the fight begins, you have seven seconds to win. Be polite before the fight. Be ruthless during the fight. Be polite after the fight. Getting caught unawares...is still failure...and it will, occasionally, happen. He also taught us to appear non-threatening until the instant that force is felt by the BG. Talking one's way out of a scrape...even with a little loss of face...if the one's objective can still be secured is good. Force is for times when it is the best choice among bad options.
Perhaps, since you have forseen this situation, you might discuss situational awareness and defenseive techniques and do FTX's as often as possible. If we are by ourselves in a new environment, a few minutes of our conversation involves a tactical discussion of the environment. That might prove useful...
I do understand that some wives will object. Initially, mine did. She thought that I was solely responsible for security...and she hated the fact that I have firearms (her only look at one had been the wrong view of a loaded shotgun). It took four years, but she has been on the bandwagon for about a year. (She still hates shotguns.)
Oh...if her attempts aren't successful, I will end it. I don't think the situation you described merits drawing a weapon. The BG and his accomplice have committed assault and battery...and another offense or two...but no weps were described. Legal consequences and job consequences (my employer frowns on violence) can twist in the wind...IMHO. Extricating my wife is all that matters to me. Will I try to do it in a way that makes it easy for the cops to say "atta-boy"? You betcha... I'll take a non-violent solution if it can be achieved in a timely manner. If not... However, assuring an appropriate outcome using all necessary means is my primary objective. Everything else is gravy.
May 13th, 2006 11:59 PM
I gotta be honest, this isn't a situation I'd really worry about legal issues in. I'm also 5"10 and 205lbs of, mostly, muscle. I'd probably walk up and tell him to take his hands off of her. If he didn't, I'd move in closer to make him. As long as he didn't pull a weapon or do anything to really hurt her, I don't see a need for this to be a 'gun' situation. I'd probably be happy just knocking out a few teeth :)
May 14th, 2006 01:33 AM
man tough thread. I can't really add much. I know that you would have a much better chance of leaving the bar under your own power if you simply took a swing at me. Once you bring my family into the picture, things are going to get ugly real fast. I agree, I don't really think this is a "gun" situation, but as usual I would be glad it was there. I would try to get in close. Tell him to release my wife, and if it wasn't immediate, he would catch one in the ear or nose, whichever was a better shot. ear=equilibrium. nose=watery eyes, and blood. his buddy would need ACL/MCL surgery as soon as the swelling went down.
i hope by that time, I could get a punch or two in, as my wife would probably be winded. and if she broke a nail....oh do I feel sorry for those guys.
--people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--
NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines
May 14th, 2006 02:34 AM
Well, if it was my EX wife, I'd say "bye -bye" and go home.
However, my current (and forevermore bride) is worth doing whatever is necessary to insure her safety. The degree of injured/dead BG and friend find themselves in is entirely up to them. I will escalate to whatever degree is necessary.
May 14th, 2006 02:58 AM
My wife would have asked once maybe 2 times to let go. Then Mister AH would be bleeding someplace from her razor sharp knife. Nothing serious just enough to get his attention. Iam not jokeing this woman takes no .... from a man drunk or sober. Why do you think I have a CC permit To protect my self.
May 14th, 2006 09:53 AM
Frankly, I'd Still be "Beating the living Piss outta him & his Buddy..!" This is NOT a draw scenario, first of all you likely wouldn't be carrying in a bar (Well, I guess I would be too, come to think of it;) so anyway, we'll just say, "It's not legal most places to CC in a place serving "Liquid Alcho-Stupid..." And if you draw in a place such as that, you'll very likely be "Wearing" every "Good Samaritan" within 20' in one second flat; doesn't help that after you get the Cr_p beat outta you, and then you go to jail, that meanwhile, the BG is still "enjoying" your wife..!
Originally Posted by DarthMuffin
May 14th, 2006 09:58 AM
This is what my wife has to say about this...
It's all your fault for bringing me to this dump in the first place and she doesn't need my help because she would've already dropped him herself.
May 14th, 2006 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by DarthMuffin
No one will hold my wife against her will.
In Florida a violent felony is taking place, and the turd holding her just lost his right to breathe. All bets are off. I now have to decide how to make this situation stop and take back control. Not necessarily a lethal force situation, but turd boy has just made this an option for himself.
In my case my Latin bride will have probably already removed his testicles, but action will be taken.
May 14th, 2006 02:10 PM
I would do whatever it takes to get my wife out of the threat situation. WHATEVER IT TAKES! The BG's have to decided how far they are willing to take it.
Note: You are absolutely legal to pull your wepon when there are two BG's involved (atleast in my state), aggressively detaining your wife and aggressivly against you. Also being in the non carry area of the resturant/bar is not an issue when the BG's drug her in there in the first place.
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
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