CCW Shooting - Page 2

CCW Shooting

This is a discussion on CCW Shooting within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've personally never been comfortable with carrying behind me (SOB or 5 o'clock). I don't like the thought of my firearm behind me for many ...

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Thread: CCW Shooting

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've personally never been comfortable with carrying behind me (SOB or 5 o'clock). I don't like the thought of my firearm behind me for many reasons. Just my personal preference. At the most, I sometimes carry at 3 o'clock and mostly at 2. I would prefer 11 o'clock for a crossdraw with my right hand, but it is impossible to sit down without having to adjust. 2 o'clock seems to work for me.

    I was just thinking as I read the story if the guy had his IWB towards his front he could have drawn his weapon as he was walking with his back towads the BG. Another option given his circumstance was a weak hand shot when the BG was at his 5 position (under his right arm/elbow). You can't prepare for every possible scenario. Glad he's alive to tell the story. Scary stuff.
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  2. #17
    Member Array wormtown's Avatar
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    Also underscores the value of the revolver. OP thought he had a jam, though it was because he could engage the grip safety after being shot in the hand. Revolver procedure for a click instead of bang is pretty simple. Even though I practice autoloader malfunction clearance, it will never be as fast as just pulling the trigger again. Of course, if you get to reload time, it's the other way around, so as always. YMMV.
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  3. #18
    Member Array wormtown's Avatar
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    deleted for double post. Sorry.
    You should not have any special fondness for a particular weapon, or anything else, for that matter
    Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    I don't have any experience with snap caps.. are they as loud as regular bullets? And where can you usually find them?
    Snap caps are dummy ammunition which have a buffer for the firing pin to hit, so there's no bang, just a 'snap'. It would sound the same as dry firing without anything in the firearm, but provides a little extra cushion for the pin. In most firearms, many argue that they're fine to dry fire and snap caps aren't necessary, but personally, I use them as much as I can.

    As for the story, very scary. This is the second story where I've heard of someone being injured in the shooting hand had difficulty with the grip safety. It makes me wonder about that...everything I own with a grip safety requires so little pressure to deactivate it, I can't imagine even being able to hold a pistol without putting enough pressure on it. Any insights?

  5. #20
    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    Thanks, cj! Had no idea.. figured the "snap" was in reference to a smaller noise. Apparently not, haha.

  6. #21
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Quickest and most effective shot for the good guy is when the bad guy is at five o'clock, to hold the right arm akimbo with the pistol upside down and fire point blank into the upper-leg, lower torso of the bad guy. Then move toward 11 o'clock while turning and firing. Some guns won't fire if the muzzle is pushed point blank into a hard object like a belt buckle, bag of loot, another weapon, etc.
    The good guy did well to get as far as he did.
    That was also suggested by a pretty well known trainer on another board. This also brings up an issue with external hammer fired pistols: unlike striker fired, you can't put your thumb on the back of the slide to keep it in battery.

    See here for a demo of how to block the slide.

  7. #22
    New Member Array spencer0071's Avatar
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    First, I am thankful that he is around to share his story.

    Second, I am not here to second guess or criticize the incident. I understand that there is a huge amount of stress that makes your mind and muscles not work normally. I just want to point out a few things that I noticed.
    If your intended target in at the 5 o’clock position why would you not switch you pistol to the left hand? You would keep the concealment longer, keep the pistol away from the target, and give them a much smaller target to shoot at.
    Does this emphasize the need for ambidextrous controls?
    I never thought of a grip safety as a liability. If your hand(s) are injured maybe you cannot depress the grip safety far enough to engage it.

    I will be thinking about this story for a long time. There are many aspects of this story that are making me rethink my carefully thought out decision. Such as the position of my carry, shoot/no-shoot situations, and my pistol selection.

    I agree with Louie’s lessons learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by louie19 View Post
    Wow - that is an intense story. Basically he unholstered his 1911 and then exchanged shots with a robber at point-blank range (who had a revolver.) Both were hit. Then the robber runs to the door. He clears a jam and then realizes he's been hit in the hands - which causes him not to be able to engage the grip safety well. Then they trade some more shots and the robber runs out of ammo.

    They both lived and he stopped the robbery and who knows what else the robber was going to do.

    Lessons learned from this:
    - carry with one in the chamber
    - practice in non-traditional positions (maybe with a laser?)
    - prepare to shoot at really close ranges
    - think about what to do if you can't use one hand
    - grip safeties might be hard to use if your hand is injured

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    The thing that jumped out at me was why were they all loitering in a parking area in the first place. Why stay longer in a dangerous area than neccesary. I am sure a group of men just hanging out in a parking area are going to make other passerby's nervous and may eventually draw a visit from police.

    This incident might never have happened if they had all gone inside and closed and locked the door behind them.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by louie19 View Post
    Lessons learned from this:
    - carry with one in the chamber
    - practice in non-traditional positions (maybe with a laser?)
    - prepare to shoot at really close ranges
    - think about what to do if you can't use one hand
    - grip safeties might be hard to use if your hand is injured
    Great list of things to think about.

    While 1911's are beautiful and fun to shoot this whole incident makes me really glad that Glock makes the fine pistols that they do.

    No safety that has to be actuated from concealment limiting tactical options such as the noise they might make and the difficulty of actuating it in a very non standard position
    No grip safety to put you in a tactical disadvantage such as being shot in hands
    No hammer to get caught on debris/clothing which also wouldnt allow the slide to be locked in battery if necessary, and finally
    Double the ammo of most other handguns of equal size.

    14 rounds from a G21SF (or 19 from a G17) is a massive advantage over a thug with a snubbie.
    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -Suzanna Gratia Hupp

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Yes, we all have the right to walk and talk around outside, and they keep trying to keep downtown Dayton from dying, because people won't drive around or park downtown after dark.

  11. #26
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    The one thing that fascinates me, and I've seen this before, is the intent to blame or criticize the original poster, or the person involved in first in an incident online.

    I don't know what it is.... the man successfully defended his friend's lives as well as his own, against a man 2 weeks out of prison intent on robbing and who knows what else, and yet people nit pick.

    Despite being shot, he is none worse for the wear for having a gun pointed and discharged in his direction with the intent to kill. I can only wish I am also successful should the time come like it did for him; plus the BG is looking at 20-40 years in prison and possibly the loss of one of his hands.

    It makes me glad and reinforces why I carry now, and the only criticism I have is I wish the guy lived closer so I could buy him a beer.

    If you really have a question, join the 1911 forum and shoot him a pm.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machina View Post
    The one thing that fascinates me, and I've seen this before, is the intent to blame or criticize the original poster, or the person involved in first in an incident online.
    I've heard that pilots say that "any landing you can walk away from is a good landing". Do you think that when they crash land and walk away they don't do a debriefing to see what could have been done better?

    It's great that the OP got away with his life and limb mostly in tact. He states he's still got problems with one finger. Things could have turned out better though.

    Someone once said - a smart man learns from his mistakes, a brilliant man learns from others' mistakes!

  13. #28
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    Safeties cause problems

    Seems like another case where safeties caused a problem.

    1. The bad guy may have heard the safety click when Blitz took it off safe and decided to shoot right then.
    2. The additional safety in the backstrap prevented the gun from firing after his strong hand was shot and grip weakened.

    Much more evidence that a Glock or similar weapon may have protected Blitz quite a bit better.

    Capt. Art

  14. #29
    Member Array Machina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    I've heard that pilots say that "any landing you can walk away from is a good landing". Do you think that when they crash land and walk away they don't do a debriefing to see what could have been done better?

    It's great that the OP got away with his life and limb mostly in tact. He states he's still got problems with one finger. Things could have turned out better though.

    Someone once said - a smart man learns from his mistakes, a brilliant man learns from others' mistakes!
    Learning from his mistakes is different than criticizing him on a situation that went as well as it could. Plus, it can be done quietly without even posting. That is why I see so little use for people arm chairing the situation.
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