January 23rd, 2010 06:00 PM
January 23rd, 2010 06:02 PM
This is prob stupid even mentioning this, but I would advise other family members so the same thing doesnt happen to them.
January 23rd, 2010 06:27 PM
I am so glad that you are able to report this incident at all....As others have said, we can critique what happened until we are blue in the face. The outcome was all that matters...you are alive and have experienced what many message board commandos only talk about...congratulations on surviving!
Now take this experience, you are now extremely aware that a life or death situation can occur at anytime and anywhere! I have learned the hard way..NEVER OPEN THE DOOR! Use windows, cameras, or peep holes to basically do a little recon before you open up your home and safety to a possible threat.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
January 23rd, 2010 06:27 PM
I am thrilled beyond words that you and your son are safe. It could well have turned out otherwise.
My only comment is you learned the hard way that your "safe" was pretty useless against thieves. It must have been either one of the little 2-cubic foot models or a Stack-On style gun locker. Unless they are securely bolted to the floor and/or wall, they aren't good for much except to keep kid's hands out of. Even my 600 lb safe is bolted to both the floor and the rear wall.
Again, I am so happy you and your son are safe.
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein
January 23rd, 2010 06:35 PM
You already realize several BIG mistakes that I'm not going to dwell upon...you'll be doing plenty of that for a long time.
Now get a new gun(s) and stay armed 24/7 if possible. If this idiot came once without covering his face, he certainly won't mind stopping by again.
I hope this 'armed robbery' will put him away for a long long time.
I'm very glad that you and the boy were unharmed.
Stay armed...even at home...stay safe!
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
January 23rd, 2010 06:45 PM
First of all thank you for sharing this first person account.
In doing so it allows us all to learn, as by proxy, and prepare as well as train to do better.
I am glad that you and your son survived the encounter.
To that you are very fortunate.
Reading your detail the first clue to me that this was going to go sideways was being contacted by this person with such a gap of time toward his estrangement.
A very strong second clue was your report states he called your wife an inordinate amount of times as over days duration.
Calling a person once a day in succession asking/begging for face time is not normal. For people you know, never mind a complete stranger. This person was/is functionally a stranger to you, even as he happens to share some genetics and a last name.
That this dude called your home across three days time span ten to fifteen times within a day as per day (!), that is very much not normal nor reasonable.
Third clue was your report of gut feeling in that something about this man was not right.
Never mind that your wife stated having the same feeling.
At this point when he called your wife, or better yet you, should have told this an over the phone in so many words do not contact us further. You have made us uncomfortable with your actions. Leave a number and some time down the road in a few _months_ we'll call you.
Not a guarantee that he'll go elsewhere but it does put him on notice that you have recognized him to be a problem person.
Last item, never ever never open your door to;1) Strangers, 2) The unannounced nor 3) The unexpected.
This guy was all three.
A stranger as unexpected and until you opened your door was also unannounced.
The door to any home is a breach point.
Yes BGs can throw chairs through windows as some folk might argue, including in threads past here. Yes they can cut through your wall with a chainsaw or some other such tool also as folk might argue, including in threads past here.
But to a majority degree most criminals will go for the point of least resistance and that is your door.
There is nothing wrong nor rude at all toward speaking to persons as through your door.
Also there is nothing wrong at all with not answering your door if you are not expecting company.
Additionally train up your kids to not never answer the door period. That is what adults in the house do. A three year old should not even know much less think to go answer a door. To them that is a concept that should be completely foreign, as for their own protection.
It's amazing how fortunate you were.
No doubt none of these people were practicing safe firearm handling technique, finger off the trigger etc. It only takes a jerk to result in lights out for you even as the action maynot have been purposeful by specific intent.
You and not just your son but your family (!) were very fortunate.
If you had been harmed or injured greatly, as even from being pistol whipped then they as a whole would have had to endure significant loss.
I hope the police catch these sons of .......!
The one day you let your guard down and boom this happens.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 23rd, 2010 06:53 PM
My heart is in my throat.
So glad that you guys came out OK.
What kind of (insert descriptive adjectives here) sit around thinking that robbing a family member that can positively identify them is a great idea?
Bottom line, you did what you had to to protect you and your son and you do not have a justifiably murdered family member on your conscience.
I am not condoning being the victim to easy the conscience, but having the benefit of hindsight, I'd say that under the conditions described, you did all you could without taking unreasonable risks.
Replace your 2 carry weapons asap, and try to get some sleep.
I'll add you guys to my prayer list.
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -C. S. Lewis
January 23rd, 2010 06:55 PM
Thanks for sharing. Glad you are ok. I'm not gonna mmq you either.
A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.
January 23rd, 2010 07:05 PM
You and your son are lucky to be alive.
January 23rd, 2010 07:09 PM
Why is he alive?
Which begs the question, why is he alive. Maybe the other two didn't know he was known to the cousin so they didn't realize they could be identified. Probably cousin was *is* not in right mind and not able to think of consequences.
Originally Posted by Soular
Except for the kiddo being able to get to the door too quickly, and the lapse in opening it to this guy you already figured was "strange," once it evolved I think you had no choice but to hope it out.
Anything else tried and you and kid might be dead. It was after all 3 on 1 with them holding the advantage from the start.
Only bargain might have been to take one to an ATM with the hope of slamming him on the way, but that might have left child at home with the others. You never know, maybe cousin would have gone with you and allowed the kid to come while the others waited, but I doubt they would have allowed that. As someone else pointed out, the other two seemed like pros. Maybe that's why you are alive.
January 23rd, 2010 07:21 PM
That was a close call, glad you came out unharmed.
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
January 23rd, 2010 07:26 PM
I hope the cops catch the dirt bags. It looks like you got real lucky I'm surprised they didn't shoot you to eliminate any witnesses. You are lucky your wife wasn't home. It could have been a lot worse.I hope they catch these guys soon so it will put your mind at ease. Hope you have good luck with the insurance. You need to call all your relatives and warn them about this guy. I agree with Jang's post. You should have never opened your door to that weirdo once you and your wife decided he was strange.
January 23rd, 2010 07:27 PM
Jang nailed it.
But, when you saw the estranged cousin the first time....both you and your wife noticed that something was wrong with him. More than likely he was high on drugs and was just casing your house. You both agreed not to let him come over again.
Now, here's the problem. He came to your door and you opened it. But, you agreed with your wife that he could not come over again.
You didn't have to open the door. You already knew something was wrong with the guy, yet you opened the door for him.
I think people (in general) are afraid of being rude. Even when it goes against their common sense, people do not want to appear rude or mean-spirited.
I hate to sound harsh, but you put your son in harms way when you opened the door to a guy that 1) you hardly know and 2) you know the guy is messed up.
That's just not right.
It's a good lesson for all of us.
Sometimes it is OK to be rude and in an authoritative voice, tell the person to leave or you're calling the police. You can shout it through the door.
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill
January 23rd, 2010 08:04 PM
they have caught the cousin, he will charged with f1. kidnapping f1.aggrivated robbery f1. aggrivated burglary f3. theft. he is being held on theft by threat and 3 counts of aiding and abeding.
I understand that i should not have answered door, and that we didnt want the cousin at our home. I never thought in a million years a "family" member would be someone to watch out for. My front door has glass in it, and i looked out to see who it was and my thought was getting my son away from the door and punishing him for going to the door, and not "there is something funny" about this situation. as far as sleep... its not coming very easy. this has consumed my thinking since it happened. I am scared to goto sleep, really even scared to be home until this is solved. the others involved are still at large, and regardless what most think, you can practice all situations that you want and you wont be ready for them, i thought my wife and I had a system down, but there is always the unknown variable ( like worried about telling my son not to get near the door while I unconciously opened the door ) and before i open the door i always look out the glass to see who or what, is was just getting dark and DID look and did not see anything.
and patti i appriciate your criticism, however I hope that you nor your children are never put into a situation like this. This situation has haunted me and consumed me since its happened. I cant describe how bad I feel and how much I am beating myself up, or how scary the actual situation was.
also to the person who asked where in cincinnati it's in the fairfield township / liberty township area. ( hamilton area )
January 23rd, 2010 08:05 PM
Thank you very much for sharing and thank god you wife wasn't home that could have taken this to the next level.
Normally I would ask why the safe wasn't bolted to the floor, but in this case it appears it may have saved you and your son. They felt they at least had something...
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