First person account of a SD shooting

This is a discussion on First person account of a SD shooting within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Cycler Yes - If you jam most autoloaders into someone, it will push the slide out of battery preventing a discharge. Putting ...

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Thread: First person account of a SD shooting

  1. #31
    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    Yes - If you jam most autoloaders into someone, it will push the slide out of battery preventing a discharge. Putting your thumb over the slide holds it in battery. I haven't tried it myself yet but apparently it doesn't hurt at all because the barrel never unlocks from the slide.

    You can check it out HERE
    I've seen quite a bit on this by Gabe Suarez. Like the post above says, it keeps the firearm in battery in the event that the muzzle is jammed in to an attacker.

    Remember also, that this turns your semi-auto into a single fire, and must be racked to eject-chamber-fire.

    With a revolver, obviously, none of that is an issue.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    firing a gun upside down is very possible...the spent cartridge is thrown by the ejector and the fresh round is slid into place out of the mag against the ramp into the chamber...the same reason autos work gangsta style...its not a gravity feed...its all mechanical and spring operated...

    the guy in the picture with the gun behind him may not be covering the slide but pressing his thumb against the rear edge of it to prevent it from coming out of battery...his thumb directly behind the slide would probably end up hanging by loose skin after the shot...

    now forget having 2 severely damaged hands but having to fire your 1911 at an odd angle or unusual hand hold...do you think it would be easy to disengage the grip safety in that situation?...try it at the range...it could save your life...or cost it...

    hell of a scenario to be caught in...hope for a speedy recovery....way to keep relatively cool under pressure...hard to imagine being caught up in that situation...especially when the holster was found...

  4. #33
    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    If there are others in the room, making such a shot is simply irresponsible. Know what your target is and what's behind it. You don't know if that's your friend brushing up behind you or if that shot might simply graze the guy and go into your friend's head.

    I'd stick to turning around and shooting him. If you lead your turn with your left elbow (turning to the left) you might be able to knock his gun away, or at least away from your body, and your gun would be in prime area for a center of mass shot.

  5. #34
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    the guy in the picture with the gun behind him may not be covering the slide but pressing his thumb against the rear edge of it to prevent it from coming out of battery...his thumb directly behind the slide would probably end up hanging by loose skin after the shot...
    Check the video, he's holding his thumb covering the slide to keep it from coming out of battery. In locked breech pistols, it's not an issue and won't hurt your thumb. I know this because I know the trainer that teaches that method (although I haven't taken the close quarters course and haven't tried that method myself yet but, I have full faith in that trainer and totally believe him).

    The MMQB -ing was that the OP had his gun at his chest with the attacker at his 5:00. No one was shot at this point. The fastest defense would have been to jam the gun backward and shoot, probably in the pelvis or thigh but, it may have gone out of battery without a thumb on the slide. Could be done before the attacker even knew what was going on.

    BTW even the OP stated in a follow up that he feels he waited to long to engage and if he's ever in the situation again, he'd respond sooner and more aggressively.

    I too think the OP did a wonderful job and it's great that he got out alive. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't look at his experience under a microscope and see how things could have been done better. I read once that in Bruce Lee's early days he was in some sort of competition and won in like 3 or 4 seconds and he was pissed off at himself for weeks because he screwed up 2 or 3 things which "could have" let to his competitor doing something to him (which he didn't). Debriefing and post analysis is how we all get better.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I carry at 2 o'clock IWB because I can't think of any tactical advantage of carrying behind me (at 5 or SOB). In this case, it was to his detriment. I'm sure many folks have their reasons, I just am not comfortable with my firearm behind me. In this case, while the BG was behind him, he could have drawn without being made and had a better chance to fire before getting to the ground (being face down on the ground is not a good tactical position and difficult to draw without being made). Just my thoughts.

    I'm personally not going to try the thumb on the back of the slide deal. I've got a beauty of a scar across one my thumbs over an inch long from a slide incident (not doing it on purpose) and my thumb versus the recoil of a .40 round (in my case) is not something I'm going to bank on. Plus, here you may have an injured thumb and having to rack the next round manually if you're successful. There's no need to jam the gun into someone's spleen to the point of having to hold the slide in. Perhaps I've over analyzing.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  7. #36
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    I'm probably repeating myself from the other posts I've made, in saying this, but it was very surreal and real all rolled into one at the same time. In reality, the whole exchange from the first shot probably didn't last more than 30-40 seconds. I'm only saying that long because of the time I took clearing the chamber. It may have still been less than that. From start to finish, meaning when the guy showed up outside to the time when he left took almost exactly 7 minutes.
    Quote from article


    It goes by fast!!! apparently


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  8. #37
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    I'm glad he saved his friends and lived to tell about it, hopefully we all can learn something from it.

    Question (not second guessing just trying to think of other options should we ever be faced with a similar situation) since he said he was wearing a jacket, when he stood up and had his pistol in his right hand could he of put it under his left arm pointed back and just started shooting though the back of his jacket? It might of prevent the BG from potentially seeing the gun and let him get the first shot off at the very least. It seems like a more concealable way to fire rather than the upside down shot above.

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    This is one of the most interesting reads of an armed confrontation that I ever
    read about.The shooter gave an honest assessment of his equipment and how he
    fought to live.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    My thoughts are that either I would have engaged the BG immediately because he ticked me off doing something so stupid, or to spin out of the line of fire and give him a good shove from the stairs. Of course I wasn't there...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This is a non-problem for those of use with frame safeties such as the 1911.

    Draw, stab barrel into BG as with safety on/active, switch safety off and fire.
    No manual reload thereafter required.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is a non-problem for those of use with frame safeties such as the 1911.

    Draw, stab barrel into BG as with safety on/active, switch safety off and fire.
    No manual reload thereafter required.

    - Janq
    Except that, after hundreds of hours of training, you flipped the safety off while drawing from the holster. Muscle memory doesn't "forget" when you are employing some obscure contact shooting technique...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #42
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Draw, stab barrel into BG as with safety on/active, switch safety off and fire.
    No manual reload thereafter required.

    - Janq
    I don't have any hands on experience with 1911's so, why wouldn't the thing pop out of battery as soon as you switched the safety off?

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    The shootees friends were so impressed with how calm under fire he appeared. Bright contrast between those who think ahead and those who don't. You can be paralyzed with fear if you have no mental map for this circumstance. All an unprepared mind can do is cower. The man with a pistol had prepared mentally for self defense. His mind defaulted to the survival instructions implanted before the incident. Your mind will go to the self preservation default you have imprinted.

    Imagine an armed intruder suddenly entering the space you are in at this moment. Now mentally take yourself through the self defense behaviors you would use to survive. If you may, practice the physical maneuvers you have visualized. Refine and repeat. Congratulations. Your mind will have an imprint default plan should an armed intruder suddenly enter your space. An immediate action template that presupposes a survival response to a mortal threat. In other words, you will appear calm to others and to the bad guy.

  15. #44
    Member Array Maverick68's Avatar
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    What is the "battery"?

  16. #45
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    When a gun is in battery it is meant that the slide is all the way forward and the gun is ready to shoot. (provided a round is in the chamber)

    A gun is out of battery if the slide is a pulled a little bit back. So if you take a Glock for instance and press it into someones back the slide may go back a little. If this happens you can't fire the gun. You would have to put the gun back in battery by pulling the gun away from the guy so the slide can go all the way forward or you'd have to do the press your thumb on the back of the slide and force it all the way forward.

    (If you do this at home to see if you can pull the trigger with the slide partially back PLEASE make sure your weapon is empty.)

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