What's legal to do in this scenario?
This is a discussion on What's legal to do in this scenario? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I sure am aware of the 21' "rule" & everything related to it but, I have a problem with the Intoxicated Knife Wielding Drunk part ...
May 17th, 2006 05:12 PM
I sure am aware of the 21' "rule" & everything related to it but, I have a problem with the Intoxicated Knife Wielding Drunk part of this scenario.
Maybe because I worked - passed by - walked around so many heavily intoxicated Back Alley Alcoholic types for so many years when I worked Smack In The Ammonia Hole of Pittsburgh.
I think can read them pretty well.
I would have an extremely difficult time automatically "dropping" two Intoxicated Schmuck Pity~Case Life Losers...provided there were any other reasonable/workable alternative.
A Lot would depend on how obviously crocked and wicked the actors were.
If they were the staggering slowly approaching heavily intoxicated typical broke ass decrepit wino types...then the 21' rule would not be "Etched In Stone" for me personally.
If forced to then especially In A Deserted Back Alley I believe that I shoot well enough & decently quick enough that I could terminate a Malicious Intox in less than 21' -
Just my opinion on that & I can only speak for myself.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
May 17th, 2006 05:20 PM
That's the problem. For some people, calling it a "rule" may very well etch it in stone. (Such as the courts in the Magliato case that Frank mentioned in his article. If one finds oneself in such a case as a defendant, one had better be familiar with the realities Frank mentions and be able to articulate them to the jury.)
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Last edited by grnzbra; May 17th, 2006 at 06:25 PM.
There's a reason The Sopranos
is set in New Jersey.
May 17th, 2006 08:50 PM
I freely admit that I have never ever been too overly impressed with the predatory skills, dexterity, and "killer instincts" of the vast majority of our Pittsburgh Pi$$ Laden Inebriated Street Urchins.
The majority would likely be considered agile & highly adept if they could cover 21 feet in as many seconds...which would probably seem vaguely reminiscent of shooting ducks in a kids swimming pool to me.
Honestly...for me...a LOT would depend on the actual event and how exactly it looked like it was going down.
That would determine how I would act.
I would not hesitate to react with deadly force if I thought it was necessary.
May 17th, 2006 09:34 PM
IMO, and just IMO, I would at least pull my weapon and make it know that I have a weapon. If these guys have an ounce of sense they will quickly realize they are out gunned. Hopefully that will end it.
May 17th, 2006 09:44 PM
The alleged "21 foot rule" comes from the Tueller Drill (named for Sgt. Dennis Tueller, Salt Lake City Police) which shows that a BG armed with a knife in hand will hurt you if he is in a circle 21 feet or closer... even if you draw and shoot him.
Remember: Action will always beat Reaction.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
May 17th, 2006 11:07 PM
It depends on the bar you go to, they have to have a sign infront of the bar or inside that has to be no bigger than the size of your computer screen that says Guns not permitted. But at the comedy club no such sign exists, but i have yet to bring it in!
Originally Posted by Weeg
But im going to start since the last time after leaving the comedy club, two bums talked to us for 30 mins in an almost alley-way in Seattle and we were kinda scared something bad was about to happen, these bums were totally drugged out and it got me to thinking its time to start packing, because the 3 next weekends after that murder after murder after murder hit the news every weekend all over Seattle really close to the comedy club.
May 17th, 2006 11:24 PM
My hopes would be that the gun being present would be enough to scare the bums away! However, drunkin state of minds don't always agree with common sense. And the bums could stash their knives easily somewhere, run and find a cop really quick and say I assaulted them with a gun, and thats were trouble can come into play. Of course all of this can't flow thru your head all at once, but the more I think of these "oh crap" scenarios, the more I think I should play out my reactions to be prepared for such an event.
May 18th, 2006 12:12 AM
fritg think that thinking trough you options is solid thinking on your part just m.02
May 18th, 2006 12:55 AM
Someone pulls a weapon on me and is close enough that I can tell it is a weapon and they threaten me with it, they are getting shot plain and simple. They have until I draw, click off the safety, and put the front sight on them to put the weapon down and kiss the ground.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
May 18th, 2006 10:22 AM
+1 to acparmed.
My #1 goal would be to survive the situation. My choice of force will be dictated by the actions of the bg. A knife at 20feet needs swift immediate attention. I will take my chances trying to prove to a jury that a man who is threating me with a knife ,at night, in an alley at 20 feet or less is a threat. At least I will be allive to Defend my actions!!!!! So at the very least gun comes out and command issued that the police are on the way and if you don't drop the knife I will BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF!!!!!
May 18th, 2006 11:35 PM
to me this just leaves them free to find another (unarmed) victim. hold them until the police arrive.
Originally Posted by acparmed
May 19th, 2006 10:03 AM
How do you propose to do that? What are you going to do if the run away?? Shoot them?
Originally Posted by NaturalSelection
NRA Life Member
Northwest Florida Defensive Pistol Shooters Member
May 19th, 2006 03:03 PM
Right,the 21' thing is NOT etched in stone. At least for me. I am not a big fan of showing your weapon but this instance is just one time that I might do just that.
Our response time will swing towards our favor if we have the weapon already presented and at the "low ready". Now could/would you let him cross the 21' "line in the sand"????
I don't know but with weapon at the low ready it takes away all the fumbles and other crap that can happen with trying to perform a speed draw. I feel that the POS(s) would have a very hard time gettin' to me in this posture. -------
May 19th, 2006 03:06 PM
Donno , i dont know WA laws , other than that i will say i dont walk alleys at night for any reason , i had to do enough of that back in the day
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
May 19th, 2006 09:40 PM
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