Book Store Scenario Revised

This is a discussion on Book Store Scenario Revised within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; (Mods, I didn't want to derail the original thread, but if you think it's best to merge the two, feel free.) I was reading the ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Thread: Book Store Scenario Revised

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226

    Book Store Scenario Revised

    (Mods, I didn't want to derail the original thread, but if you think it's best to merge the two, feel free.)

    I was reading the "Book Store" thread and it made me think of different ways it could play out. Here's a scenario:

    Let's say you're an employee at some type of smaller retail store. Company policy says employee's cannot be armed, but it's not against the law for you to do so. You do carry because it's worth it to you. It's closing time, but there's still a few customers finishing up their shopping. This is quite normal so you don't think anything of it. You're in the corner of the store stocking and arranging shelves when your co-worker locks the door so no more customers come in. This is a common practice at all kinds of stores and restaurants.

    As soon as your co-worker does so, one of the customers pulls out a gun, shoots a hole in the ceiling, and starts making demands. He demands everyone goes into the back room and to hand over their wallets/phones/jewelry/etc. Lucky for you, you're still unnoticed in the corner of the store. You dial 9-1-1 and tell the operator the store is being robbed.
    Also, while he's trying to get into the register, he threatens the manager and tells her that he'll kill her if she doesn't get the register open quickly. She's also 6 months pregnant.

    Now do you: Stay hidden in the corner and hope you're not discovered? Try to make a break for the exit while he's distracted? If a clear shot is possible with a "safe" backdrop, do you try and take him out?

    The reason I bring it up is because I often see "Call 9-1-1 and be a good witness." And while I can agree with this advice in some/most situations, what if your co-worker's lives are being threatened? I mean, these co-workers are good friends. Especially if one is pregnant. If you can eliminate the threat without putting yourself or any innocent bi-standers at risk, would you try to?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    3,397
    Just the part of the BG moving me to the back room would have me looking for an defensive opportunity.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevew View Post
    Just the part of the BG moving me to the back room would have me looking for an defensive opportunity.
    But in this scenario you are not being moved anywhere. You remain in the corner of the store. Everyone else is herded into the back room.

  5. #4
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,651
    I'll take, "Move in and shoot the dirtbag" for $400...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,080
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I'll take, "Move in and shoot the dirtbag" for $400...
    Alex, I think we have a winner.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Thats a tough and real scenario..

    I would remain concealed. Get a good description of the BG as well as what he is armed with and stay on the line with the 911 operator till the police arrive. Since I work at the store I would know the layout of it pretty well I would also tell all the info I could to the operator like other exits and such. It would be time to plan route of escape. If I am discovered I would not hesitate to draw and fire until the threat stops. I would rather lose my job for carrying then my life for not carrying.

    Rule# 17 "Don't be a hero"
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #7
    Member Array Looney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I'll take, "Move in and shoot the dirtbag" for $400...
    ok here say you do that and this happens. you move in for the shot but the BG then grabs said pregnant woman and points the gun to her head even with a clear shot are you 100% sure that your shot will put him down before his finger can pull the trigger. "sorry to add to the scenario" i have a tendency to think WAY too much into situations lol

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    ok here say you do that and this happens. you move in for the shot but the BG then grabs said pregnant woman and points the gun to her head even with a clear shot are you 100% sure that your shot will put him down before his finger can pull the trigger. "sorry to add to the scenario" i have a tendency to think WAY too much into situations lol
    Lets not add. I think this is a valid scenario and adding the above to it would make it sound too much like a movie.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  10. #9
    Member Array Looney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    86
    i agree my fault razor like i said i tend to think way to far into it. but i do agree with ret about his response

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    Call 911 and leave if possible.

    There's just as much chance that bg will lock everyone in back room and not harm them, as he will executing them. I dont know the odds tho.

    But if you shoot....then a million more variables are introduced....what if you miss, what if you hit and still hit another patron (over penetration)? What if bg can still shoot after being hit? What if, as you draw, another patron panics and calls attention to you before you can shoot, alerting the bg who may then take clerk as a hostage.....the list goes on unfortunately.

    I'd go with the original odds, whatever they may be, that he wont execute the people in the back room before cops can get there.

    BTW, these are my thoughts if I am unobserved by bg and not being one of those herded elsewhere (or being moved elsewhere yet.) I'd described what I'd do in that case in the other thread.

    If he had to come and find me....my gun would be out and already aimed.
    Last edited by 9MMare; February 10th, 2010 at 03:01 PM. Reason: qualifed with what I wrote in other thread
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Like the other thread and many like this before, there are simply way too many situational variables to call it one way or another.

    All manner of unknown specific variables such as:

    * Are you alone or with other persons?

    * Are there other civilians near by you and if so are they the type to panic and scream when they see _any_ 'man with a gun not wearing a badge' or will they be able to be shusshed and kept quiet as you attempt to do something?

    * Just because all you can see/hear/detect is one BG does not mean he/she does not have a complicit partner as among you.
    Heck moments before he/she was among you as one of you, the GGs, wearing sheep clothing...Just like you.
    How do you know, with surety (!), there are no additional turn coats among you? You don't.

    * Does the BG(s) inside have support waiting outside?

    * How far away is the target in meters and when was the last time you trained in _combat type_ defensive/offensive handgun shooting for fine accuracy as with the specific gun and ammo you are carrying?
    Shooting bullseye style at the range, belly and/or hands rested against the table (I see this most often among shooters at public ranges) is not at all going to be similar to this situation.

    * Is there an exit near by for you to make use of? If so, why not take it...Why take it?

    * Is there good hard cover near by?
    Is there good durable concealment near by?
    If so, which option do you choose...and why?

    These are just a few to come to mind off-hand with little to no thought.
    It's not going to be so easy as insert tab A into slot B, fold and finished.

    These what if scenario threads typically have more variables than a game of chess, and most everyone knows chess is easy to ply and lose but difficult to master.

    Real world examples include the following...

    YouTube - Jewelry store armed robbery in Florida part 1

    YouTube - Jewelry store armed robbery in Florida part 2

    YouTube - Armed Jewelry Store Robberies Caught on Tape

    YouTube - Restaurant Robbery Caught On Tape

    YouTube - Restaurant robbery caught on tape

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    To me, 50/50 is TERRIBLE odds.

    Wait 'til I have a clear shot, and take it.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226
    I'd have no problem sitting there and let the BG take what he wants and leave. The only thing that bothers me is what if he ends up shooting one or more "hostages" for whatever reason. I'd have to live with myself with the knowledge that I might have been able to prevent it, and I don't know how easy that would be.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    You know Janq, as an aside....apologies if off-topic..when you type it all out like that, it really brings home, to me, the big advantage that the bad guys have over the rest of us....when fractions of seconds may count...*we* have to take all that, or similar, into consideration...and the bad guys do no such thing. They have no such reasons to hesitate or care.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  16. #15
    Member Array gunsite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    122
    Every person has to decide for themselves... a few thoughts.

    I would assume your around 20-30 feet away from your target since your standing away in a corner somewhere, but even at 10-15 feet you have the draw your weapon and make the shot. Also hope that if you hit your target he can't return fire, and if he does, do you have cover.

    If you do decide to take the shot, who else is in/beyond your line of fire in case your shot is off target, or if your bullet goes through your target.

    If you do decide to shoot... ARE YOU BONDED... if someone/bystander gets injured because of your actions and causing your targets actions to inflect injury, and your decision to so without having any legal obligations to, will you be sued.

    If you have any type of training can you muster it under stress, are you confident enough to take the shot. A lot of variables come into to play with this scenario.

    Should you... or shouldn't you

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Walmart or "any store" Scenario
    By jvteach77 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: July 19th, 2010, 03:28 PM
  2. Book store scenario (for real)
    By lcrguy in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: February 15th, 2010, 04:55 PM
  3. Hypothetical scenario in liquor store
    By MountainPacker in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: June 18th, 2008, 05:58 AM
  4. Some of the revised top 10 safety rules...
    By DeMeshia in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 22nd, 2006, 03:44 PM
  5. Scenario: Liquor Store
    By Scott in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2005, 01:28 AM

Search tags for this page

model book store scenario

Click on a term to search for related topics.