May 20th, 2006 09:22 PM
Gas station scenario
It is late at night around midnight, you enter an empty gas station, walk out of your car, walk inside to pay cash (no credit card quick pay outside at this station) when you see the clerk being held up by an armed man with a shotgun.
This store's layout is one of those AM PM's where you enter the door and the checkout stand is in the middle with all the ailes around it.
So us, being CCW people, I'm curious to as to what you would do in this situation.
The BG has not noticed you have entered the store under the loud shouting he has done.
WOuld you walk away are intervene?
May 20th, 2006 10:02 PM
I am going to cheat a bit and give what is rapidly becoming my stock answer!
''Play it as you see it''. Honestly - so many variations on a theme possible here. Had this been seen from outside would I in fact enter? If in there already then I would have hand on my piece expecting the possibility of said shottie swinging my way - if that occurred then game on, hoping no one in line of fire.
But again - so hard to be precise - easiest tho is if I am myself in immediate danger - and thinking too - if my con yellow was up to scratch I would not be in there anyways, perhaps.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
May 21st, 2006 01:43 AM
So it says you have entered the store and the bg is close by in view with a shottie in the clerks face. My gun would be immediatly out because the second he notices you are there that big hole on the end of it is coming your way. If you start to leave he will probably notice and "prevent" you from telling any authorities.
Now if you notice before you enter that something is going down(like you should, being the constant con yellow fellow that you are) then the best idea is to get out of sight and call police. Stay on the line so you can give info/liscense #'s/etc...
"In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N
May 21st, 2006 10:12 AM
Staying aware of your surroundings may save your life someday. I cannot imagine entering a business where there was a robbery in progress and the BG was yelling loud enough that they wouldn't notice someone entering the establishment. I would have to hear or see the activity before entering. Given that I would get on the phone give all the pertinent info I could. If possible get to cover and draw my pistol so it was in hand should something else happen.
If the clerk is still alive then the BG likely won't shoot without some provocation. In my area when the intention is to shoot the clerk they just walk in and do it. No threatening or waving of guns, they just walk up and shoot.
"Condition Yellow" as we like to call it, is a lifestyle. You learn to observe and assess everyone and everything within your area. You make decisions based on your observations and assessments. I have waited to enter a stop n rob to pay for fuel until other people have left because I don't like the "looks" of them. Is this inconvenient? It can be. However, it beats being shot, stabbed, beaten or involved in something like that any day of the week. Do some people think I'm paranoid? Sure they do. But no one with me has ever been shot, stabbed or beaten either. Sometimes I'll walk the long way to the vehicle because alleys and blind entrances are bad places to get caught. That is my lifestyle of condition yellow.
If I was in condition white so bad that I did walk in, then the guy's accomplice will be putting me on the floor quickly. If the guy really is alone, which is terribly unlikely, movement will draw his attention to me and the gun will follow. Because I'm walking in my sleep I will likely be shot and possibly killed. The reason being, is since I didn't have a clue going in, I will not be able to draw my gun in time or move offline in time to not get shot. This will also cause the clerk and anyone else who was in the place to get shot, because once you've shot and killed one the penalty is the same for everyone after that.
Another twist is, you do manage to get offline and the BG doesn't shoot you or even at you. Now you probably have a hostage situation. The BG will order you to come out or he will shoot the clerk. Now what are you going to do? The clerk is 8lbs of trigger pull away from becoming an abstract art piece. Even if you shoot the BG he will likely still pull the trigger. Now for you it is the same as if you shot the clerk.
I suppose you could always draw your gun and yell "FREEZE!". That would get the BG to point the shotty at you and you can empty your mag into him and claim self defense. Of course then you find out that the clerk was in on it (happened here about a month ago), so he was never in any danger. Now you are possibly going to jail.
So being aware of your surroundings may not only save your life someday it may save some other people as well. It is a lifestyle I had before I was licensed to carry and it is one I practice everyday everywhere I go. Some how I still have fun and enjoy life.
May 21st, 2006 10:18 AM
Once the BG spots you he's probably going to panic and shoot somebody and you might be first since he believes he's already in control of the clerk.
If I had a clear shot I'd likely take it while I still had the element of surprise on my side. The shelves and displays in a convenience store hardly qualify as cover so it would probably be one of those "now or never" moments.
May 21st, 2006 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by P95Carry
Ding! Ding! Ding! Exactly
As in many of these scenarios, especially the close-quarters ones.
And like I drew fire in one thread (from the "I would"s)...The age old axiom ALWAYS applies:
"The enemy gets a vote"
May 30th, 2006 04:13 PM
Call me a coward, but I think rule #2 applies, "have a bigger gun". I don't think there's anyway I'd walk into a possible gunfight at that range goin' up against a scattergun. Sounds like a great way to end up dead to me. If it was a day that I had a long gun in my vehicle, I would go get it, if not it's time to retreat and call the cops.
May 30th, 2006 05:09 PM
Couple of thoughts:
Handguns are generally more common in hold-ups, in this day and age, so.... the BG is more concerned with power than concealibility, or ease of disposal, while running- not good indicators.
As described, you'd better draw and shoot, or raise you hands and hope for the best. If the BG is hyped, or just on adrenaline, odds are good he's just going to point and fire, unless you look totally harmless and he's together enough not to panic. If you "distract" the BG, the clerk might bring a weapon into play, getting you involved in a 3-way lead-slinging fest. Either way, not good.
Above all- situational awareness! Not to say that we don't all have an "off" day, now and then, but a "Dusk 'til Dawn" scenario would have tells, before you put your hand on the door.
May 30th, 2006 05:35 PM
I don't know what the law is in Washington state, but here in SC, retreat if you can. Therefore running into that situation, would put you in a courtroom. In my state call 911, don't try to be a hero, once you enter you're considered an agressor, in that situation. Stay outside and let the police handle it. Say you went in and shot the BG, all it would take is some liberal jury, to put you away for 20 years.
June 7th, 2006 02:18 PM
With said scenario, I assume that the BG's back is to the door. His focus is the cashier, not the door. Me, not paying a bit of mind, walk in to a store un-noticed only to discover it is in the process.
My fist reaction is to back out as quietly as I possibly can. As bad as it sounds, just because I have a CHP, does not mean that it is my duty to protect the public. My CHP is for me, my family and those that I am with, not everyday Joe who happens into a scrape.
Once safely outside and my surroundings are to my advantage, then I place a call to 911.
I would not leave the situation all together, but i would not involve myself any more than necessary. I have a CHP in my wallet, not an "S" on my chest.
June 7th, 2006 06:43 PM
I would immediately get back into my car and leave......and immediately call the cops. It is not my job to intervene my life is not in danger I am outside. Just leave, don't play cop...
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
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