Really Happened

This is a discussion on Really Happened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD In Florida, the law sets 3 elements that cover your situation. Were you: [*]involved in stopping and immediate forcible felony?[/LIST]Let's review ...

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Thread: Really Happened

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD View Post
    In Florida, the law sets 3 elements that cover your situation. Were you: [*]involved in stopping and immediate forcible felony?[/LIST]Let's review your situation...
    1. Attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon-type crimes are forcible felonies in Florida.
    In other words -
    • You could have stopped the threat as long as somebody could have been cut by the attacker.
    • You have not been disarmed unless you were being immediately arrested.
    • Unless and until you are convicted for the some criminal behavior out of this event, you can not be sued.
    I don't assume that someone using a weapon is comminting a "forcible felony".
    I hope if someone sees me using a weapon the thought that I am protecting myself crosses their mind.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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  3. #32
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    During each of the 4 armed robberies I complied with their requests. I gave them the cash & within 60 seconds they were gone! I was left unharmed in each of the robberies. By NOT complying with the BG's you risk getting hurt or killed. Cash is replacable. My life isn't!
    I drove to the store 4 times without wearing a seat belt, and I didn't die - this proves that not wearing a seat belt is the safest course of action......

    There is no blanket answer here, or in any similar situation, and to say that "your" way is the one and only right way is arrogant and, to be blunt, ignorant. You must act as the law, your conscience, and the totality of the circumstances dictate.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #33
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    Forcible Felony

    I don't assume that someone using a weapon is comminting a "forcible felony".
    I hope if someone sees me using a weapon the thought that I am protecting myself crosses their mind.
    __________________
    True - your analysis is correct. It is not just the weapon being there, it is the intent of the person with a weapon.

    Capability and Intent need to exist. Without both, there is no threat.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    One downside is you need to get a good holster,carrying loose in your pants is a good way to lose your gun,If the BG had started fighting you and your gun fell out he could have grabbed it and shot you since he doesn't have a problem stabbing people,he may have been the person that was attacked and managed to disarm the guy,you see a bloody knife in his hand and decide to shoot him,hope you like being sued and or prison
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu711 View Post
    Believe it or not I would have felt the same way even if I had been stabbed. If I had been stabbed AND shot if the good citizen was less than accurate I would have been in a worse position. Here's why I made the statement that I would prefer you call 911 & be a good witness.

    We were trained to comply with the BG's requests. During each of the 4 armed robberies I complied with their requests. I gave them the cash & within 60 seconds they were gone! I was left unharmed in each of the robberies. By NOT complying with the BG's you risk getting hurt or killed. Cash is replacable. My life isn't!

    Again, I would rather comply with the BG's requests & not risk getting stabbed in the first place. The last thing I want to do escalate a bad situation. Shooting in my general direction puts my life in danger. Getting a BG angrier at me makes the situation that much worse. Now my life is in that much more danger.

    The sooner the BG is gone, the safer I am.
    Wow. This is one of the "sheepiest" posts that I have ever seen.

    News flash! The bad guy was stabbing, not had stabbed, when the OP got there. The BG hadn't gone away, he was in the process of inflicting more damage. You say that you wouldn't want help "even if you had been stabbed", but this stabbing was not over. The BG stabbed 5 times. Are you saying you wouldn't want someone to prevent the 6th, 8th, 10th, or 15th stab?

    If you say no then you are just spouting crazy talk.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu711 View Post
    We were trained to comply with the BG's requests. During each of the 4 armed robberies I complied with their requests. I gave them the cash & within 60 seconds they were gone! I was left unharmed in each of the robberies. By NOT complying with the BG's you risk getting hurt or killed. Cash is replacable. My life isn't!
    All are good, valid points.

    The problem is, not all robberies are so pat, with such a (relatively) happy ending. More and more, it seems, robbers are turning on their overpowered victims out of sheer joy for the the "juice" it gives them. As many examples as might be proposed where the felons didn't blow sideways, examples can be found where they did.

    I'm all for honor existing in criminals, and I'd love to be correct in my estimation that they're always there for the cash, furniture, whatever. But that's simply too hopeful for words.

    The point being: training is fine, and hoping for a good outcome is fine, but there are criminals out there who simply don't act according to our training plans. At some point, such as when the tension, eyes, body language point to the BG being about to blow, or when being herded to the back for who knows what post-victory "dance" by the BG's, stopping the progression of violence is the best option. Only you can know, at the moment, when "cash" isn't enough for the BG.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu711 View Post
    Believe it or not I would have felt the same way even if I had been stabbed. If I had been stabbed AND shot if the good citizen was less than accurate I would have been in a worse position. Here's why I made the statement that I would prefer you call 911 & be a good witness.

    We were trained to comply with the BG's requests. During each of the 4 armed robberies I complied with their requests. I gave them the cash & within 60 seconds they were gone! I was left unharmed in each of the robberies. By NOT complying with the BG's you risk getting hurt or killed. Cash is replacable. My life isn't!

    Again, I would rather comply with the BG's requests & not risk getting stabbed in the first place. The last thing I want to do escalate a bad situation. Shooting in my general direction puts my life in danger. Getting a BG angrier at me makes the situation that much worse. Now my life is in that much more danger.

    The sooner the BG is gone, the safer I am.
    I'm glad the four robberies you endured ended well. I hope you continue to have good fortune and never have to go through another such event.

    However, as others have said, what about the fifth criminal who decides to shoot you or stab you just because he feels like it?

  9. #38
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    Thank you Ride4TheBrand.

    First off i never pulled my weapon. I also didn't go to get my gun because i wanted to use it. The only reason that i went to get my gun was because I knew that their was about 15 to 20 people in the parking lot around Wiggins car and i have worked with Wiggins and knew that this was over a drug transaction.(turns out the whole thing was over a $10 bag of pot) Thats all that the guy does plus i know that he always carries a butterfly knife. That instantly threw up a red flag when I looked outside and saw him and his jeep. When i went outside Wiggins was facing the guy reaching around hitting him in the back. I never thought he was stabbing him to draw my weapon at this point. When my manager pulled the other guy away, Wiggins lunged at them. I grabbed him by the arm with the knife and when i did he turned and started to strong arm pushing me backwards. before i could even get my hand on my weapon his girl pulled up right beside of us and when he saw her he immediately turned to get in his car. That was the end of the confrontation. I was in fear of my life when he started pushing me with the knife in his hand. I believe that this was a PC to defend myself. I do not regret what happened or the way that I acted. I am not proud of anything except that if it came down to it i could have defended myself. But what if i went out there without my weapon and he didn't jump in the car. I know that theirs always what ifs and hindsight is 20/20. I hope that i never have to un-holster my weapon, but if i do then i know that i am in a situation that calls for deadly force on my part, and in this situation i think that it did. Thank god he turned around and i didn't have to draw my weapon BTW my work pants have a little pocket on the inside of the pants that i guess is for a cell phone or something but my 40 fits in the pocket and under my shirt. When i'm at work my weapon is in my large car-hart jacket in my locker. My holster is attached to it so thats why it wasn't holstered. I thank you all for your comments and I look forward to many more learning conversations.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    I also didn't go to get my gun because i wanted to use it. The only reason that i went to get my gun was because I knew that their was about 15 to 20 people in the parking lot around Wiggins car and i have worked with Wiggins and knew that this was over a drug transaction.(turns out the whole thing was over a $10 bag of pot) Thats all that the guy does plus i know that he always carries a butterfly knife. That instantly threw up a red flag when I looked outside and saw him and his jeep.
    Which is exactly why you shouldn't have gone outside. Youknew it was over drugs and that at least one weapon may have been in play.

    As i grab the larger black male (Wiggins, who use to work there) he has a bloody knife in his hand and started to push me back.
    You could have very easily been stabbed right there.


    I immediately let him go and step back to draw when his girlfriend almost hits me with her jeep and he jumps in and speeds off.
    What exactly did you plan on doing after you drew your weapon.


    I'm all for helping innocent victims. But this here was two criminals.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  11. #40
    Member Array muzzleloader's Avatar
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    9*1*1

  12. #41
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    dsee,
    I went outside because my manager went outside by his self. My shift leader was already calling the cops. I wasn't trying to play LEO. I went outside because I knew my manager was running into a dangerous situation. I am just happy that everyone is still alive and i didn't have to use my weapon.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array Arko's Avatar
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    BTW..
    What is your employers policy on weapons on premises?
    I don't care if you violate their policy or not, but consider if you're willing to lose your job if found out.
    Just something to think about.
    "Don't Tread on Me"

  14. #43
    Member Array Wvshootr5191's Avatar
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    they are completely compliant because alot of the employees don't get off until after midnight and we are right on the interstate. My managers all know i am a permit holder and carry my weapon.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLewall View Post
    you're a cook, not a hero..that could have been a bit more ugly if you had been quicker on the draw...as sociaty dictates, call 911 and be a good witness
    yes^ on^ this
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
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    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Arko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wvshootr5191 View Post
    they are completely compliant because alot of the employees don't get off until after midnight and we are right on the interstate. My managers all know i am a permit holder and carry my weapon.
    Well, that's good, but what is CORPORATE policy? If anyone above your store management team found out, what would be the repercussions?
    "Don't Tread on Me"

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