Really Happened

This is a discussion on Really Happened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anyone can cite all the line and verse of states laws they want as to justifying your actions....but that dosen't mean you won't be charged ...

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  1. #61
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    Anyone can cite all the line and verse of states laws they want as to justifying your actions....but that dosen't mean you won't be charged and end up in court...even if charges don't stick...what do you do when your sued six ways from tuesday in a civil action by every person you "assaulted"with your good intention...hmm,learn how to use the phone...my.02

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a "good samaritan."
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron8903 View Post
    Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance ... "good samaritan."
    No. But being human does.

    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    Anyone can cite all the line and verse of states laws they want as to justifying your actions....but that dosen't mean you won't be charged and end up in court.

    what do you do when your sued six ways from tuesday in a civil action by every person you "assaulted"with your good intention.
    When good is done, it's still good. Even if others won't see it. Risky though that may be, given our twisted culture that dehumanizes and criminalizes such acts of goodness.

    In the sense that it's better to give than receive, it is NOT criminal to come to the aid of those in need. It shouldn't even be seen as a threat by so many, and yet sadly it is. People help people every day. The honest good in that is simply inescapable. The day we stop denigrating and, at our very worst, criminalizing the act of doing good for others will be the day we reacquire our humanity. We can stop the denigration now. The decriminalization will take a bit longer.

    Now, I'm as big a proponent of calling for the cavalry as anyone, when it's appropriate. I tend to be pessimistic about risk and outcome, so I tend to be cautious. However, I am an even bigger fan of thinking a situation through. Not all situations are fated. Not all acts of decency and kindness need be feared simply because of legal risk.

    "CYA" means cover your "butt" to most folks. Yet it can also mean Can You Articulate the goodness of your intentions and actions, and the good that resulted. Threatened though people might be from engaging in such acts of goodness, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't worth doing. Each person needs to decide that for himself/herself.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; February 21st, 2010 at 09:40 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #64
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
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    The best advice I see here is 'get some defensive handgun training'. You did some things right and some things wrong, but at least you know you're not a sheeple peeing your panties in the corner.
    Last edited by Geno; February 21st, 2010 at 08:40 AM. Reason: delete a word

  6. #65
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    ccw9mm,it is good that you have your own opinon,and I have mine..

  7. #66
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    That's why we armchair quarterback,It's to give everyone a what if this happens what do I do,and then wait for the responses,remember we are gun people and we may think you put yourself in a situation that wasn't very wise.Think about a jury of your so called peers who aren't gun people and think only cops should have guns,and that you should have called 911 and been a good witness,unless you actually see the knife beforehand,which you stated that you didn't
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    No. But being human does.



    When good is done, it's still good. Even if others won't see it. Risky though that may be, given our twisted culture that dehumanizes and criminalizes such acts of goodness.

    In the sense that it's better to give than receive, it is NOT criminal to come to the aid of those in need. It shouldn't even be seen as a threat by so many, and yet sadly it is. People help people every day. The honest good in that is simply inescapable. The day we stop denigrating and, at our very worst, criminalizing the act of doing good for others will be the day we reacquire our humanity. We can stop the denigration now. The decriminalization will take a bit longer.

    No, I'm as big a proponent of calling for the cavalry as anyone, when it's appropriate. I tend to be pessimistic about risk and outcome, so I tend to be cautious. However, I am an even bigger fan of thinking a situation through. Not all situations are fated. Not all acts of decency and kindness need be feared simply because of legal risk.

    "CYA" means cover your "butt" to most folks. Yet it can also mean Can You Articulate the goodness of your intentions and actions, and the good that resulted. Threatened though people might be of such acts, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't worth doing. Each person needs to decide that for himself/herself.
    I dont mind you quoting me, but please use the whole quote.
    I value your opinion and respect it., you removed police, and I wonder why?
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron8903 View Post
    I dont mind you quoting me, but please use the whole quote.

    I value your opinion and respect it., you removed police, and I wonder why?
    Certainly not due to any desire nefarious designs to alter your point. Rather, merely to focus on the element I chose to in my point.

    Both can coexist, as opinions. And that's a good thing.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Certainly not due to any desire nefarious designs to alter your point. Rather, merely to focus on the element I chose to in my point.

    Both can coexist, as opinions. And that's a good thing.
    Absolutely, thanks for clearing that up for me.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    This is one of the more educational post. Even though not everyone agrees, it got folks thinking.
    Thanks
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  12. #71
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    15- 20 people in a fight over drugs in a parking lot.

    THAT is the reason I always carry a flash bang in my smartcarry.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevem174 View Post
    15- 20 people in a fight over drugs in a parking lot.

    THAT is the reason I always carry a flash bang in my smartcarry.
    Waaay too many options for gags here - but since it is Sunday I'll leave them for someone else. Gotta say, though, ya got a word picture there...
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu711 View Post
    Believe it or not I would have felt the same way even if I had been stabbed. If I had been stabbed AND shot if the good citizen was less than accurate I would have been in a worse position. Here's why I made the statement that I would prefer you call 911 & be a good witness.

    We were trained to comply with the BG's requests. During each of the 4 armed robberies I complied with their requests. I gave them the cash & within 60 seconds they were gone! I was left unharmed in each of the robberies. By NOT complying with the BG's you risk getting hurt or killed. Cash is replacable. My life isn't!

    Again, I would rather comply with the BG's requests & not risk getting stabbed in the first place. The last thing I want to do escalate a bad situation. Shooting in my general direction puts my life in danger. Getting a BG angrier at me makes the situation that much worse. Now my life is in that much more danger.

    The sooner the BG is gone, the safer I am.
    I disagree with the bolded to an extent. The BG getting angry can be a positive(although I suspect that depends on a point of view). Angry folks screw up, usually both mentally and physically. It's that simple. That means someone with a level head may very well have ample time and/or tactics to respond in such a fashion that an angry BG cannot either fully comprehend or respond to.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  15. #74
    Member Array Balog's Avatar
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    What bothers me in this type of situation is lack of reliable intel. Is this a guy fighting off his mugger, a drug deal gone wrong, or...? I imagine my wife trying to tell my baby his Dad died trying to break up a couple drug dealers fighting over turf, or is in jail for shooting what turned out to be a guy defending himself from a robbery attempt...

    Maybe it's heartless, but the kind of people who get into fights in parking lots are not generally the kind of people I want to risk my life for.

  16. #75
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    I don't think he was acting like an LEO by being willing to stop any violence towards his Gen Mgr or anyone else. From reading these posts I'm sure I'm in the minority, but.... I will not stand back and 'watch' as someone gets beaten and / or stabbed .. if I can stop it. It's not called "acting like a cop", it's called being a good samaritan. He's not there trying to catch a BG, he's trying to prevent anyone from being harmed. Big difference. He was covering his Gen Mgr's back, who was the one who probably should have thought twice about running out there and injecting himself into the situation.

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