Really Happened - Page 8

Really Happened

This is a discussion on Really Happened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Treo I don't carry a weapon to protect others from violence. Especially when the others are two adult males who are engaged ...

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  1. #106
    Member Array mauser1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I don't carry a weapon to protect others from violence. Especially when the others are two adult males who are engaged in illegal activity in the first place.
    .....

    If two males are fighting each other in the parking lot It's not my business.

    The only illegal activity that could be ascertained is an assault ... PERIOD. You are so correct, it is not your business, and I assume from your cavalier attitude that a rape of a young woman in front of you would not be any of your business either, after all the crime on a person is not on you. I hope that none of your family ever gets into a scape when you are not around and someone has the same attitude as you. OMG, who knows if they go to stop a kidnapping or another crime of violence they might be prosecuted or worse. I guess that I grew up in a different time, and kind of environment; I still think that Joe Horn was a hero.


  2. #107
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mauser1959The only illegal activity that could be ascertained is an assault ... PERIOD.
    Really? how do you know that ? How do you know that "Wiggins" didn't just catch the guy breaking into his car? How do you know that Wiggins hadn't just disarmed the other guy and was in the process of subduing him for the cops?

    Originally posted by Mauser1959 and I assume from your cavalier attitude that a rape of a young woman in front of you would not be any of your business either,
    Apples and oranges

    Originally posted by Mauser1959I hope that none of your family ever gets into a scape when you are not around and someone has the same attitude as you
    My wife packs and she kills her own snakes

  3. #108
    Member Array mauser1959's Avatar
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    Does not matter, the only crime that could be ascertained is a violent assault, one that involves a deadly weapon. I am glad that your wife carries a weapon and KILLS her own snakes, however lets hope that you never have a son of age, that could be an adult but not able to carry.

    SO lets for the sake of argument say that your willing to go to the assistance of a woman? which seems to be what your saying. Who is to say that the woman is not involved in a domestic dispute, that sure would not be any of your business, but I would hope that you would try to keep her from being harmed. At what point do you draw the line, since there is one in your mind. Is it two grown men of the same size, two grown men , one with a knife, a cop with that is being beat to death (happened to a friend of mine, thank god for strangers with some moral obligation), just where does your moral obligation come into play if you have one. There have been many simple assaults that have resulted in deaths. Or another scenario, a grown man is beating up a young boy , say 14, what do you do .... lets see he could be a young gang banger out causing trouble he is 14 after all and it a grown man. This turtle attitude is out of control in this country. I should not render assistance at an accident scene, after all I only know cpr and first aid , i am not a doctor?
    Last edited by JD; March 1st, 2010 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Addressed via PM.

  4. #109
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Bottom line folks

    Originally posted by Treo I recognize no moral or societal obligation to interject myself into such a situation and I really question the motives of anyone who does.
    I really meant that. In almost any situation I would happen to walk into I don't have enough information to act. I also don't carry liability insurance to cover myself should my wrong actions cause permanent injury to an innocent bystander.

    There was an incident here in Colorado a year or so ago in which a cop jumped a guy from behind while trying to arrest him. The cop was shot. Suppose you'd been standing there all you know is that Guy A just jumped Guy B who are you going to help?

    Guy A was wanted for attempted murder but you didn't know that.

    FWIW this isn't a made up scenario it really happened

    Please refference this thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ink-about.html

  5. #110
    Senior Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    The only thing I have to say is that if someone is stabbing me, you have my permission to become involved. If your round goes through him and hits me I promise I wont sue!!

  6. #111
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    I'll second that!!! I hope if someone is trying to rob me and it goes bad and he's stabbing me in the parking lot at the Outback that someone will get him off of me before he kills me.. that is if I didn't shoot him first.

  7. #112
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    "Sheepdog" is a term used by people who posses both a concealed carry permit and delusions of grandeur and who believe that their permit came W/ a bat cape.

    IMO the whole sheepdog myth is nothing more than CHP elitism. It's a way for CHP holders to aggrandize themselves and pretend that their CHP gives them some type of police authority.



    I am not a sheep dog
    I again I feel complelled to post and before I can I find that you have articulated my thoughts exactly.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  8. #113
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    I don't want to jump on the band wagon and dump on you for standing up and doing what you thought was the right thing

    Instead I'd like o give you an A for intent but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. From what I read your intentions and motives are spot on. "For evil to prevail all that is required is that good men do nothing" You did try to do something.

    But when you act you MUST do the right thing, In my opinion you did not. Please do not take this as an attack. Rather for what it is a post game review so that by the next game you will have some insight a better prepared and aware.

    Based upon what you posted you did not know what was going on. It appears you knew the players and assumed they were in a fist fight. They were not. That error could of gotten you killed or maimed. Wiggins could have just as easily stabbed you or slit your throat as push you back.

    Instead of a fight it sounds as if a man was being murdered. Stabbed in the back. IMO you have every right duty and obligation to step in if able. But proper assessment of the situation is critical. My actions would have been more along the lines of coming up behind the attacker shoving a gun into the assailants ear demanding submission. Failure to do so instantly would result in his brain being aerated. Or if the situation required I'd have said nothing and simply stopped the murder in progress. As this is a text book example of using lethal force in defense of another's life.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsee11789 View Post
    I'm all for helping innocent victims. But this here was two criminals.
    Based upon the OP's provided link. How does being stabbed in the back make anyone a criminal? This exemplifies my point about accurate assessment of the situation being critical. This inaccurate assessment could result in doing nothing while an innocent man is killed. Something I know some proudly announce they would do. But not how I was raised.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  9. #114
    Member Array rcain007's Avatar
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    I didn't read through all of the posts, but here are some of my opinions...
    1. I have no obligation or desire to break up a fight I have absolutely no involvement in: ESPECIALLY if I am armed. I can't see risking the chance of someone grabbing my gun off my hip while involved in some kind of tussle.
    2. I would call 911 and be the best witness I possibly could. In any fight in a public place I've ever witnessed, there are people scattered everywhere, and they usually aren't standing still. No way am I throwing lead into a crowd like that until that knife is intended for me.

    This may sound a little harsh, but I carry a weapon to protect myself and my family. I am not a cop, personal bodyguard, armed security, or any of the above. Using your firearm even in a justified self defense scenario can become very costly in court, as well as have long term effects on a person. All of which becomes irrelevant when protecting the lifes of me and mine. I would be a lot more hesitant in a situation like this.

  10. #115
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride4TheBrand View Post
    The vast majority of posters in this thread would do nothing but "be a good witness and call 911".

    Sheepdogs indeed.
    Realize that the vast majority of people "sign up" with CHL to protect themselves and their loved ones. People who prefer to protect everyone train to become police or sheriff's officers in their local communities. As well, the D.A.'s in many communities are high zealots when it comes to going after whomever is left standing, particularly when people take the law "into their own hands," etc. That's worth remembering, when railing against people for handling situations differently than you think you would.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #116
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    You did that right thing, Don't take what a lot of these people are saying seriously. 1. I would have pistol whipped the guy in the back of the head who was stabbing the other man. 2. You stopping that victim prevents the chance of that victim(criminal) from hurting other people by speeding off or getting stopped later. 3. You can be a good witness like everyone else there or be a good samaritan citizen and save the mans life. 4. I dont know what everyone is claiming the person getting stabbed is a criminal, how would you know then he was a criminal or a innocent bystander? I feel as a future CCO that protecting others come first, I'm not afraid to die and thats the truth.
    A+ for what you did, its always good that you ponder the thought afterwords.

  12. #117
    Member Array Wvshootr5191's Avatar
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    Thank You For All Your Input.

    Honestly I think that their was alot of things that I did wrong. I have invested in a couple of different training classes since this happened. I have learned alot about the things that I did right, and the things I did wrong. Mostly the things I did wrong...... I really am grateful that everything turned out ok.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wvshootr5191 View Post
    I am looking into different training courses in my area. This post has really made me think about what I did right and what I did wrong. But as no one can change the past, we only learn from prior actions to make better decisions in the future. I really appreciate everyones insight on my situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wvshootr5191 View Post
    Honestly I think that their was alot of things that I did wrong. I have invested in a couple of different training classes since this happened. I have learned alot about the things that I did right, and the things I did wrong. Mostly the things I did wrong...... I really am grateful that everything turned out ok.

    You'll be amazed at what you'll learn and how much your eyes will open when you take your first "Defensive Shooting" course.

    Be sure you have decent grasp of safe gun handling and shooting skills before you enroll in a defensive shooting course. Don't hesitate to take a Basic Pistol Course first to get a handle of basic shooting fundamentals if you need to, but a defensive shooting course will open a whole new world to you. And you'll learn problem solving skills based on a sound tactical foundation.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #119
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    Once again I find myself surprised despite the fact that I have read dozens of similar threads with similar responses. People who probably consider themselves decent human beings proudly announcing that they would stand by doing nothing while a defenseless human being, an American citizen was being murdered, stabbed in the back. Bragging as if doing nothing was some kind of glorious act to be proud of. Worst, insulting anyone who would even consider standing up like a man, a decent human being and doing the right thing.

    I simply do not understand. There was a time, not so long ago in this country that if anyone stood by and did nothing while a man was being stabbed in the back, being murdered, the whole country would be in an uproar. If anyone just stood by, aiding and abetting with their inaction any murderer, robber, criminal assailant or rapist, it would make news nation wide. There would be editorials about declining morals in America on the national news. The mayor of the city it happened in would make a statement that not everyone in his fair city was such a weak, spineless maggot. Asserting most citizens of his city are good decent people. The governor of the state it occurred in would say much the same thing. That his state was a safe place to visit. Most of its citizens were not selfish simpering sniveling cowards. Local news would carry it. Discussing how that would never happen locally, how local people were decent honorable people who take their duty and obligations to each other and the community seriously.

    I know its probably out of fashion and just dates me but I was raised to believe that being an American Citizen is a privilege denied many. That our freedom, liberty even our rights come at a cost. That we each have a duty, an obligation to our community, our nation and our fellow citizens. That to allow selfish, self centered, self interest or cowardice to be your guiding force was a despicable weakness. That honor, integrity, duty, service and obligation are far more important than me, myself, and I or even my life.

    There was a time when no man would stand by and allow a fellow citizen to be preyed upon. The coward who would stand by and do nothing while a fellow citizen was attacked, a child abused or a lady molested was despised nation wide.

    It's sad to see, that this nation has done a complete 180. Now there are those that glorify selfish cowardice. Proudly announcing their unwillingness to risk anything, if it is not self serving. Attempting to justify their weakness by making disparaging remarks about those that would do the right thing, the humane thing. Having sunk to the same levels of selfish self centered depravity that drives a child molester whose whole value system is also based upon self. Self serving, self gratification, self satisfaction, self preservation. I made the comparison deliberately, intentionally because I can not understand a child molester. I simply can not wrap my head around a "thing" that would harm an innocent, pure child for its own selfish gratification. Just as I can not understand anything so weak, so cowardly, so selfish that they would stand cowering in fear, filling their pants with their own waste, aiding a depraved animal that is harming a fellow citizen. All because of fear, cowardice, because there is no profit in acting, because it does not serve some selfish self centered interest. I simply can not wrap my head around that kind of thinking and immorality.

    Gun or no gun it is not about being a hero, wanna be cop or tough guy. Its about being a decent human being and simply doing the right thing. The necessary thing, no more than what a dog would do for a fellow pack member. A human being should at least measure up to dog standards.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #120
    New Member Array mnshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    "Sheepdog" is a term used by people who posses both a concealed carry permit and delusions of grandeur and who believe that their permit came W/ a bat cape.

    IMO the whole sheepdog myth is nothing more than CHP elitism. It's a way for CHP holders to aggrandize themselves and pretend that their CHP gives them some type of police authority.



    I am not a sheep dog
    My thoughts exactly

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