This is a discussion on Really Happened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; hea everyone, my valentines day was crazy. i work at the local Ruby Tuesday as a cook. Sun evening we were fully packed with a ...
February 20th, 2010 06:30 AM
hea everyone, my valentines day was crazy. i work at the local Ruby Tuesday as a cook. Sun evening we were fully packed with a 45 min wait time when i see my general manager running out the front door to a crowd of people in the parking lot. as i see a fight starting to commence i run to the back and grab my S&W sigma 40 and tucked it into my waits band. I go outside and two guys were clinched and my general manager was trying to break it up. As i grab the larger black male (Wiggins, who use to work there) he has a bloody knife in his hand and started to push me back. I immediately let him go and step back to draw when his girlfriend almost hits me with her jeep and he jumps in and speeds off. The man that he stabbed, (Eagle) is still recovering in the hospital and has 5 stab wounds and a collapsed lung. I was just wondering if could have done anything to help if i didnt have to go get my gun out of my coat. i have been thinking about a LCP with a belt clip so i can keep it on me. Oh yea heres the story.
The Register-Herald, Beckley, West Virginia - Two arrested after Ruby Tuesday stabbing
February 20th, 2010 06:30 AM
February 20th, 2010 06:56 AM
How well does your cell phone work from 30 yards away?
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
February 20th, 2010 07:08 AM
Be a witness.....what did you think you were going to do with your gun?
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
February 20th, 2010 07:18 AM
it is best not to get involed in a parking lot fight. they are to break up with out using some type of force. words will not stop them. call 911.
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
Red State State of Mind
February 20th, 2010 07:36 AM
you're a cook, not a hero..that could have been a bit more ugly if you had been quicker on the draw...as sociaty dictates, call 911 and be a good witness
February 20th, 2010 07:53 AM
Good way to get hurt, sued or arrested. Maybe even all three put together.
It takes a lot of discretion and discipline not to get over-involved. Your permit doesn't make you a citizen-policeman or even a good samaritan. It only allows you to carry a concealed weapon.
Level of involvement is constantly debated, and I don't have an absolute answer for every situation. I'll do everything I can, use every tool available to protect myself or family members. Involvement with anyone else in peril is on a case by case basis. I might get directly involved or I might only help in some other indirect method. I might not do anything, because I'm carrying my toddler grandson to get him out of the area.
I continually hear criticism of those who won't get involved, you can read stories nearly everyday in the paper, where someone was beaten while onlookers watched. I'm not saying not to get involved, but I'm saying you have to apply discretion and discipline first, then decide on what level of help you can render that would be appropriate.
I admire your willingness to help, but the story as you described, would not be one that I'd tend to get over-involved in.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
February 20th, 2010 08:21 AM
I started to write when you first posted this story, I backed off and waited for others. The answers you've received haven't surprise me. Carrying a gun doesn't make you a hero, cop or bad ass. Its very obvious you were proud of your actions, you should be ashamed. This story could of turned in many directions and its obvious your weren't prepared. Don't take these comments as a smack in the face rather a chance to reflect
February 20th, 2010 08:30 AM
If you had drawn and shot a prosecutor would have crucified you. You were not in danger until you CHOSE to get involved, and went to GET your gun (premeditation?). Further, you tucked the gun in your waist band? Very unsecure and potentially unsafe.
PLEASE stick around our forum, and read..ALOT. I'm glad you're ok, and came here, but you have alot to learn. (we all do). Please stay, learn, and consider getting some professional training as well.
February 20th, 2010 09:00 AM
Well, I'm have to agree with the comments, but I'm wondering about some comments mentioned, since I don't know WV laws, since one had a knife (not visible at the beginning, but shortly there after) if he had pulled his gun, do WV laws pertain to defense of others like Texas laws do, then would not our friend here have had some protection under the law to use his weapon in defense of the man who was stabbed?
Just asking for clarification reasons.
I agree in general though, witness and take it all in is the best advice I can give also at this point for future events should they occur for your own safety.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
February 20th, 2010 09:13 AM
What you witnessed was a situation where calling 911 would have been your best option. Being a good witness was the best way to proceed. I speak from personal experience.
I'm a former hotel desk clerk who was robbed at gunpoint 4 times. During each of the robberies I followed the BG's request's & gave them all the cash from my drawer. The last thing I wanted was having a well intentioned citizen pointing a gun in my direction.
As well intentioned as you were you could have missed your intended target & hit an innocent bystander. That is a worst case scenario. Best case scenario, you would have shot the BG with a knife but still had to answer to the LEO's, DA's, etc. why you felt you had to discharge your firearm.
From my personal experience after being robbed at gunpoint, the LAST thing I want it to be in anyone's line of fire. Even if it is a well intentioned citizen who felt he was saving my life. DO consider the legal consequences of firing your handgun if you don't hit your intended target.
At times being a good witness & calling 911 is the best option. IMHO this fight was one of those instances.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
February 20th, 2010 09:16 AM
Your CHP (or whatever WV calls it) does not make you a LEO, or a super hero. It gives you the ability to carry a weapon for self defense. Parking lot fight, you have no earthly idea what or who started it.
Keep clear, call 911 and be a good witness.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
February 20th, 2010 09:39 AM
I don't blame you. I prefer being armed at ALL times.
Originally Posted by Wvshootr5191
I would have as well.
Originally Posted by Wvshootr5191
Look, you didn't do anything wrong. You got lucky, but you didn't do anything wrong. I do NOT subscribe to the idea of only calling 911 and being a good witness contrary to what others have posted here.
You were well within your rights to act as you did. In your state, deadly force in defense of a third party is legal. For someone to say that you would have been crucified by the courts if you had acted is subjective at best, and self preservationist at heart.
I'll tell you ... If I am being stabbed, I hope to God that someone will intervene in my behalf if I am unable to stop the attack myself. The actions you took may very well be the difference from the guy being stabbed 5 times and living, to being stabbed to death. Yes, you may very well have saved the guy's life.
§55-7-22 of the Code of West Virginia
(c) A person not engaged in unlawful activity who is attacked in any place he or she has a legal right to be outside of his or her home or residence may use reasonable and proportionate force against an intruder or attacker: Provided, That such person may use deadly force against an intruder or attacker in a place that is not his or her residence without a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that he or she or another is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm from which he or she or another can only be saved by the use of deadly force against the intruder or attacker.
"We must remember that one man is much
the same as another, and that he is best
who is trained in the severest school."
~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
February 20th, 2010 09:45 AM
Thanks for clarifying WV code, and perhaps IF it was clear what the situation was, and who really was the aggressor, it might change my mind slightly, but probably not.
Originally Posted by Ride4TheBrand
I seriously doubt this situation was clear cut good guy/bad guy, especially not having been able to witness it fully from the onset.
Do as you wish, but I feel he's gotten good advice.
February 20th, 2010 10:11 AM
Would you still feel that way if you were being stabbed by someone? Would you really want the bystanders to be good witnesses and call 911 or would you like some help from someone if they were willing to come to your aid?
Originally Posted by Pikachu711
February 20th, 2010 10:33 AM
No, yes, maybe…
Despite my conviction to be a good witness, I cannot always legislate my own morals and compassion. Recently, I came across a man assaulting a woman. Another car had already stopped as a woman in a dress exited her vehicle and approached the man. She calmly dissuaded the man from his assault. In hindsight, I realized that my armed intervention could have escalated the situation, but I would have felt terrible had the woman who stopped the assault been injured.
In the case presented by 'Wvshootr519', I understand the instinct to help although it can end poorly. Still, I discovered it's a hard choice when something 'actually' happens, as our response and consequences are uncertain.
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
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