He just started shooting

This is a discussion on He just started shooting within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SAMI I'd have shot him in the back while leaving the store if that's the best shot that was available to me. ...

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Thread: He just started shooting

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMI View Post
    I'd have shot him in the back while leaving the store if that's the best shot that was available to me. If this man was willing to murder 4 LEO, he's capable of taking out anyone. I would more than likely unload an entire magazine of .40 into that SOB.

    EDIT... I'd have no problem taking this guy out in the parking lot either.
    Given what we know...probably would intervene....
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I would have drawn and fired as soon as I realised the threat
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I've thought it about a million times. I'm pretty sure I wouldnt have been able to get my weapon clear & aimed by the time he was exiting...he shot all 4 in rapid succession. One cop followed him all the way out to his vehicle (where he shot the POS). So altho I likely would have taken a position of cover in the doorway and looked for a shot...there was a cop in close proximity and all kinds of questions about backstop in that open parking lot. I hope that I would have the frame of mind to get out there and get a plate number...I know I would be rendering first aid to fallen cops.
    None of us knows for sure what they would do in a real situation like this one,

    That said, I believe we would revert back to our training or lack thereof and most likely act accordingly.

    If we have a mindset that we shot to save live rather than just to take life we will be more apt to act with dispatch.

    When I started to carry I became much more SA and hopefully that would give any CC who is SA more time and maybe space than the just drinking coffee.
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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I would not have intervened unless I was put into danger. For all I know another cop will walk in the door, and there I am standing there with a weapon in my hand and 4 shot cops on the floor. I think in this scenario I would not likely get the chance to explain.

  6. #20
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    x10 I fear this as well.

    I'm not aware of any such instances....are there?
    Yeah, Mas Ayoob mentions one case wear a guy shot his friend as well as the BG that was beating him inside the shooter's home. The friend sued him and it was covered under his homeowner's policy.
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  7. #21
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    As much as I feel it is important to just be a good witness, this is definitely the time to take a 'given' shot...lots of 'em.
    This guy only targeted the cops and not anyone else in the coffee shop, he was on a 'mission'. Depending upon the target's position in the shop, I would have carefully tried to end this dirtbag's career, but I would only have done so if given the correct opportunity...
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I have to agree, the best course of action in this one is witness and description time if needed and render assistance as mentioned. To much chaos would be happening and to put another weapon into the mess would put yourself in a bad situation in my view.

    Render assistance in any form in this type of situation.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  9. #23
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    Honestly as quick as it was probably over I would be more interested in getting someone to call 911 while I got the trauma kit and worked the first aid angle on this one. If he stood around for a minute I doubt there would be a police officer in the world that would arrest you if you plugged the guy in the back of the head.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    delusions of grandeur here guys...this guy took out 4 cops in short order...including one that followed him out into the lot...and you think you stand a better chance than they did?...by the time you figured out what was happening and made a move you may have been shot...

    run him down and shoot him...you think after he shot the last cop that he just turned off his mission and walked away?...this isnt target practice....

    this isnt a movie...everyone wants to believe they could be a hero in this type of situation but a reality check is in order...look at what happened...you can be pretty certain that if you were there you would have been just as surprised as the officers were and it would have taken a moment to get your bearings straight while men were being slaughtered...thats not a calm situation and its a lot to take in in a short amount of time....and you may have had your own family to consider getting to cover at the same time...

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    delusions of grandeur here guys...this guy took out 4 cops in short order...including one that followed him out into the lot...and you think you stand a better chance than they did?...by the time you figured out what was happening and made a move you may have been shot...

    run him down and shoot him...you think after he shot the last cop that he just turned off his mission and walked away?...this isnt target practice....

    this isnt a movie...everyone wants to believe they could be a hero in this type of situation but a reality check is in order...look at what happened...you can be pretty certain that if you were there you would have been just as surprised as the officers were and it would have taken a moment to get your bearings straight while men were being slaughtered...thats not a calm situation and its a lot to take in in a short amount of time....and you may have had your own family to consider getting to cover at the same time...
    ^^^ that ^^^

    I would have tried to get a description of the shooter while taking cover and calling 911. After I know the threat is gone I would try drag the officers to cover and provide first aid + CPR to one of the officers while trying to get more people to help the other 3. All the while yelling "4 OFFICERS DOWN!, 4 OFFICERS DOWN! SEND HELP TO __(location)___!" over and over to the 911 operator and into the officer's radio.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalSS View Post
    I did a search for something like this but didn't find anything so here it goes.

    I'm sure most of us have heard of the four Lakewood Officers who were assassinated last November. This touches me deeply as it was very close to where I live.

    Let's say you, a law abiding citizen, was in the Forza coffee shop while this was happened. Clearly the guy target the officers and only the officers. If you were legally carrying for firearm that fateful day, would you have intervened? I know there was a struggle to or out the door between one officer and the BG, so probably pulling a gun before they were all down would not be a good idea. Maybe just getting physically involved? No involvement?

    Also something to think about, after he murders the four, he flees from the store. If you were there, with your firearm, would you have done something after he murdered the officers and was running from the scene? It seems pretty clear he was an immediate, life threatening danger to the public, would you have ordered him on the ground and/or shot him if/when he didn't comply?

    I'm trying to stay out of saying what I would do because it's to emotional, and I'm not sure I would have been thinking clearly.
    Its nice to think (as CCW people) we would draw and kill the Target and be a hero. But there's so many variables to this shooting scenario, its hard to be truthful. What if you were sitting there with your granddaughter, or mom, would you be willing to possibly draw fire towards your position.

    Its simple to say " i would stop the threat " without details of actually be present and positioning at the scene.

  13. #27
    Member Array naking's Avatar
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    I probably would not have realized what was happening until it was over. Helping the police officers would have been the only reasonable thing I could have done.

  14. #28
    Member Array TacticalSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    delusions of grandeur here guys...this guy took out 4 cops in short order...including one that followed him out into the lot...and you think you stand a better chance than they did?...by the time you figured out what was happening and made a move you may have been shot...
    He took out 3 cops sitting drinking coffee and one who fought back, he didn't kill them, he executed them, at least any CPL holder would have had a moment while the Sgt struggled with him.

    run him down and shoot him...you think after he shot the last cop that he just turned off his mission and walked away?...this isnt target practice....
    Yes he ran from the scene, but he was also wounded. Probably not running at a fast pace.

    this isnt a movie...everyone wants to believe they could be a hero in this type of situation but a reality check is in order...look at what happened...you can be pretty certain that if you were there you would have been just as surprised as the officers were and it would have taken a moment to get your bearings straight while men were being slaughtered...thats not a calm situation and its a lot to take in in a short amount of time....and you may have had your own family to consider getting to cover at the same time...
    Everyone keeps mentioning getting their families to safety, and while the thing to do before you do anything else, what about those of us who don't have families. I hear a shot my hand goes to my pistol, I don't draw randomly every time a car backfires, but I am prepared. Sitting here at the desk typing, it's easy to say what we "would have" done, but in all honesty who is to know. I was mainly searching for the opinions of what others would have attempted to do.


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  15. #29
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Yeah, Mas Ayoob mentions one case wear a guy shot his friend as well as the BG that was beating him inside the shooter's home. The friend sued him and it was covered under his homeowner's policy.
    Kathy Jackson's book, Lessons From Armed America mentions a case, in Florida I believe, about a father whose ricochet kills his son. It was a sad and trajic ending that should be a constant reminder to all that carry a gun that sometimes the ending isn't what we think it will be.

    We can all sit here and say what will will do, but the truth is, we don't know what we will do until confronted with that situation. Also, how we respond one day may be 180 degrees from how we respond on another day.

    Given the nature of the crime, and the heiniousness of it, I would like to think that if the opportunity presented itself, even if he was running away, I would put a bullet in the badguy's back in this case. Being willing to gun down four police officers while they are drinking coffee proves to me that you are an ongoing danger to society as long as you are able to breath.

    The reality is however that after I got to cover and checked the health and well being of myself and loved ones the badguy would most likely be gone.

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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    I would have wanted to help the cops as much as possible. But in all reality, the cops might have easily viewed me as bad-guy #2. Thus they would shoot me instead of the BG. But even still, I would have assisted somehow. I mean, after all, why else are we carrying?

    Why carry if you're unwilling to help the good guys?

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