Bad Advice Given by St. Paul Police 10pm news....carjacking

This is a discussion on Bad Advice Given by St. Paul Police 10pm news....carjacking within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok just saw St. Paul Cop Public info officer give what I assume is Bad Advice....it concerned a family, Mom Dad & kids being taken ...

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Thread: Bad Advice Given by St. Paul Police 10pm news....carjacking

  1. #1
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    Bad Advice Given by St. Paul Police 10pm news....carjacking

    Ok just saw St. Paul Cop Public info officer give what I assume is Bad Advice....it concerned a family, Mom Dad & kids being taken to "Secondary Crime Scene"....the advice was "comply"

    From every reliable source I've come across....that is THE LAST THING YOU EVER WANT TO DO.

    The story involves a family buying a car for cash off of Craig's List. The family shows up at a location in St. Paul with cash ready to buy a car ($2200) the perp who placed the phoney add on Craig's List meets the Dad and shows a gun. Perp then demands that Dad drive perp (and Dad's family) to a secondary location in the car that Dad and family drove up in.

    A few miles away Perp tells Dad and family to get out of car and perp drives away with Dad's car AND his cash.

    Is it not conventional wisdom to NEVER BE TAKEN TO A SECONDARY CRIME SCENE. In other words...if you are going to make a last stand and fight for your life it is when you about to be taken to a SECONDARY CRIME SCENE.

    QUESTION #1:
    Does the demand to be taken to a secondary crime scene activate the claim "I FEARED FOR MY LIFE / GREAT BODILY HARM"

    (Dru Sjodin was ALIVE in the parking lot that she was abducted from)

    QUESTION #2:
    Should one of the instructors here challenge the St. Paul Police Dept for giving out bad advice?

    I'm moderately pissed-off about this...I think the guy should be forced to give a retraction ....or someone should get 3 minutes on the 10PM news to offer a rebuttal.

    In my opinion, the moment you are directed to a secondary crime scene is the moment you fight for your life with all available means.

    Here's the Video from the KSTP website:

    KSTP TV - Minneapolis and St. Paul - MN family kidnapped, robbed after answering ad

    MN family kidnapped, robbed after answering ad
    A Twin Cities family thought they were meeting a man to buy a car, but they ended up trapped in their own vehicle, held at gunpoint and robbed.

    The family, who asked to remain anonymous, answered an ad for a Toyota Camry posted on Craigslist.

    The couple took their two-year-old and went to meet their contact at 8:30 p.m .Thursday on the 200 block of Birmingham Street on St. Paul's east side.

    The victim walked up to the man to make the transaction.

    He said, "He put a gun to my head and said you see what I'm working with."

    The gunman followed the victim back to the family car where his wife and child were waiting.

    St. Paul Police Sgt. Paul Schnell said, "They did at that point exactly what we would people do and encourage people to do, to be complaint and survive the situation."
    They drove for at least two miles, the victim behind the wheel and the gunman in the passenger seat.

    The victim said, "He puts the gun in my gut and says if I do anything stupid he'll kill me."

    When they reached Conway Street and Maria Avenue, the gunman forced the family out of their car and took the $2,200 they planned to use to purchase the advertised Camry.

    The victim said the gunman returned some of the money before driving away.

    He said, "He gives me a hundred bucks and said that's the bus ride home."

    The family's stolen car is a 1996 green Honda Civic with a Minnesota license plate LFD 609.

    Anyone who spots the car, or knows anything about the crime, is asked to contact the St. Paul police.

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  3. #2
    Member Array DIXIETWISTER's Avatar
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    If i have my gun(and i will) there will only be an attempted crime scene, if the BG take his gun off me long enough for me to draw mine. Glad it worked out for these folks, I have never heard police say anything but comply with the perps. demands... he has his 2 year old with him and no way to defend himself, I think he made the right decision.
    You may not like guns. You may choose not to own one. That is your right.
    You might not believe in God. That is your choice.
    However, if someone breaks into your home at 3AM the first two things you are going to do are:
    1) Call someone with a gun.
    2)Pray they get there in time." - A wise man

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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    I think he lucked out. If a carjacker directs you to another location, you can feel confident it will be someplace where he has an even greater advantage.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    Member Array mitocondriac's Avatar
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    I say that is a life threatening moment. If the opportunity presented itself I think I would have taken my chance to get him.
    So If Guns Kill People Do Pencils Miss Spell Words???

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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12smile View Post
    ..."the perp who placed the phoney add on Craig's List meets the Dad and shows a gun."...

    QUESTION #1:
    Does the demand to be taken to a secondary crime scene activate the claim "I FEARED FOR MY LIFE / GREAT BODILY HARM"
    forget the second location.
    "and shows a gun." is enought to fear for your life by any normal standard.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    The LEO agencies telling the Gen Pop to resist and fight opens up to a world of civil suits.

    They have to say something. If they (LEO) tell you to comply, then it is not their fault if the BG did not hold up their end of the bargain not to hurt you.

    That is why they are "advising" you. You still have the choice to follow the advice of an entity that is under no legal obligation to protect you.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    AzB
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    And beyond all the comply and shoot the BG stuff, why the heck was this guy meeting a stranger from Craigslist with $2200 in cash and his family in tow? That's the real stupidity here.

    Az

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    I think he lucked out. If a carjacker directs you to another location, you can feel confident it will be someplace where he has an even greater advantage.
    That's my thought...he's looking for a location that's better for him, not you. I'm surprised people are still falling for these Craig's List crimes after they first starting coming out. Folks are delivering themselves to the BG to a known location and with a known quantity of cash in hand. Kind of takes the guess work out of Bad Guyying. BGs must be getting lazier than in the old days...or smarter...maybe both.
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    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    And beyond all the comply and shoot the BG stuff, why the heck was this guy meeting a stranger from Craigslist with $2200 in cash and his family in tow? That's the real stupidity here.

    Az
    Exactly. I just sold some winter tires on craigslist. I made sure the guy met me inside a local car dealership. The whole transaction took place in front of 10 witnesses.

    If thats not possible, I'd arrange to meet the fellow at the local police station, and then ask the officers inside to keep an eye out. If he wants a test drive, ask for license take a photo of it and then let him go on his own IMO.

  11. #10
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Difficult call

    The biggest problem in this situation is the presence of the young child. It would be so much easier to end the problem without the 2 year old.

    I personally would never bring a child along to a purchase because it would be a distraction from the details and inspection of the item. Never mind the safety problems that are introduced.

    Maybe that should have been the topic discussed by the police.

    Having said that, I would try to avoid going to a second location at all costs.

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    If told that you're going to another location, that is the time to plan on action that will send the dirtbag to 'another' location...a very warm location....I'm just sayin'
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Had a homicide occurred in Tx that was on the next 48,He was carrying his concealed weapon,when Perp tried to jack him he pulled his gun and was shot before he got his gun out,The guy that posted the phony Ad had a friend of his rob the victim and then he was gonna pull up all innocent ready to do the transaction and be like oh my god your kidding me you was robbed.They weren't planning on the guy resisting
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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Can you clarify the pronouns in this: "...when Perp tried to jack him he pulled his gun and was shot before he got his gun out..."

    Did the citizen get shot before he could finish drawing?
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    AzB
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Had a homicide occurred in Tx that was on the next 48,He was carrying his concealed weapon,when Perp tried to jack him he pulled his gun and was shot before he got his gun out,The guy that posted the phony Ad had a friend of his rob the victim and then he was gonna pull up all innocent ready to do the transaction and be like oh my god your kidding me you was robbed.They weren't planning on the guy resisting
    I'm completely confused.

    Az

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    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Had a homicide occurred in Tx that was on the next 48,He was carrying his concealed weapon,when Perp tried to jack him he pulled his gun and was shot before he got his gun out,The guy that posted the phony Ad had a friend of his rob the victim and then he was gonna pull up all innocent ready to do the transaction and be like oh my god your kidding me you was robbed.They weren't planning on the guy resisting
    ...so the bad guy got It???

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