C'mon people, really?

This is a discussion on C'mon people, really? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 50 yards away and has a shot THROUGH the windsheild with his Glock 26. A small compact weapon and at 50 yards will shoot through ...

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Thread: C'mon people, really?

  1. #16
    Member Array Trumpetchuck's Avatar
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    50 yards away and has a shot THROUGH the windsheild with his Glock 26.

    A small compact weapon and at 50 yards will shoot through a windsheild with a child in the car???

    Even if the car comes a lot closer......through the windsheild and a child in the car??

    I'll get the plate number.
    "Don't be afraid to see what you see.
    -Ronald Reagan-

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetchuck View Post
    50 yards away and has a shot THROUGH the windsheild with his Glock 26.

    A small compact weapon and at 50 yards will shoot through a windsheild with a child in the car???

    Even if the car comes a lot closer......through the windsheild and a child in the car??

    I'll get the plate number.

    +1 Yeah man. And the car is MOVING! Get plate and call 911. End of story.

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  4. #18
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    If the guy had tried to stop the car and the Dad in the car is a CC holder, imagine from his point of view. Some madman is trying to stop him in his car with his daughter. Might have ended up in a shootout.

    I think it is best to only protect your own life or those who you know... most of the time it is too hard to determine the situation at a glance. Unfortunately, unlike employees of the State, we don't have sovereign immunity to protect us from the consequences of our reckless actions.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=9MMare;1521982]In the scenario, the author/carrier had no time to address the adult male. In such a situation, I would try to do so if at all possible, even if it required going to his driver's side window. But even if so, he could lie and tell me he was the father even if he wasnt.
    QUOTE]

    If your close enough to question the guy, why not also question the girl? A 6 year old isn't going to lie about him being her father or not. However a 17 year old might be devious enough to.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Just what kind of reaction are you expecting? That every weapon-carrying, red-blooded, testosterone-soaked American boy would be running up to the dirty-jeans guy and shoving a gun up his nose???

    Frankly, I'm impressed that the response has been as damped as it was. I want people who carry weapons to leave the brain engaged full time and not jump to rash conclusions about who needs to be drawn down on. Don't confuse this with apathy or lack of courage, think of it as slowing things down for a few seconds to avoid making an irreversible decision.
    1000% spot on.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    I don't think OP understands that the minute you walk into a 3rd party situation, and do the wrong thing, you are 100% the bad guy, no better than an other murder (not looking at the legal term, just in general).

    You pull a gun on the father, he reacts by pulling his gun, or driving the van at you, you fire. Now you just killed that girl's father. Your actions will cause reactions. In the provided story, I think the armed citizen made the right call, and guess what, it was. You can't argue around that point.

    While I agree it is wrong to state you sould never get involved, at the same time, it is immoral, causes pain, harm, is offensive (all the words that define evil) to state someone owes action to a situation they know little about.
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  8. #22
    Member Array spar10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetchuck View Post
    50 yards away and has a shot THROUGH the windsheild with his Glock 26.

    A small compact weapon and at 50 yards will shoot through a windsheild with a child in the car???

    Even if the car comes a lot closer......through the windsheild and a child in the car??

    I'll get the plate number.
    exactly my thoughts!

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    As far as I know the story I posted actually happened. It was part of an email I got from USCCA. The point of the article was that (obviously) the gun shouldn't always be our first choice.

    Put yourself in dad's shoes for just a second, you're driving home W/ your disobediant brat of a child when someone you don't know points a gun at your car

    How would you react?
    Well I'm not a father, but my immediate gut reaction would probably be to draw my own firearm.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    I'm quite dismayed by the reactions of some people ...

    Its as if I've been transported to an alternate universe where everyones man-stones have fallen off and is now on display in a mayonnaise jar.

    Just read the facts ... even knowing that state law is behind you 100% and consider the nature of the below mentioned "possible crime being committed."
    Every situation is different. There's the rub. We can make all we want of a given situation, but in another county that might well be insufficient. Everything depends on the circumstances a person is faced with, and circumstances don't stop with the basic players and what is perceived by someone passing by.

    Some situations are crystal clear. Most are not, with variables that passers-by cannot know.

    Which is why we should not denigrate and castigate those who merely see something differently.


    Just what kind of reaction are you expecting? That every weapon-carrying, red-blooded, testosterone-soaked American boy would be running up to the dirty-jeans guy and shoving a gun up his nose???

    Frankly, I'm impressed that the response has been as damped as it was. I want people who carry weapons to leave the brain engaged full time and not jump to rash conclusions about who needs to be drawn down on.
    Exactly so.

    Conclusions in some situations are crystal clear. But launching half-witted and half-cocked into a situation can get everyone into a world of trouble.

    Hey, karma happens. "Life" is a grown-up game. It's dangerous and ugly, at times. Not everyone will play by "the rules," whatever those are. Forcing everyone to play by those rules can end up with folks dead or dying ... on mistaken grounds. Caution is due, each and every time.

    Kudos to those who can keep their wits, when all about them are losing theirs.
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    In my CCW class, our instructor went through almost the exact scenario posted here. Gotta keep your thinking cap on in these situations, not just react with the “stones”.

  12. #26
    Member Array Alf87's Avatar
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    I've seen things like this happen many times in the past, who hasnt seen a kid not want to go with an adult. On a few occasions, I thought something was up but never immediately went to drawing my weapon. I always closed the distance and listened to what was going on and twice I verbally engaged. Thankfully, each time it was only a stubborn kid who didn't want to go with Dad or Mom.

    Even if I saw a kid immediatley swiped up from the street with little to no conversation I couldn't say I'd draw. Would I really want to try and shoot at a moving target with a child in it or even have the BG use the kid as a shield. Getting plate numbers, vehicle/BG's description and calling 911 would most likely be the better option.

    I know this is situational and many factors will dictate whether we draw or not. However, the guy in the OP was definetly lucky he didnt fire or that the dad didnt run the him down.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    If your close enough to question the guy, why not also question the girl? A 6 year old isn't going to lie about him being her father or not. However a 17 year old might be devious enough to.
    Absolutely. You have to take in the whole situation and things are not always as they seem.

    And I have been in situations similar to this, where the cops came, and I (the park ranger) was the only one who could keep communication open to get to the bottom of the situation.

    In Central Park, group of 4 male black teens was 'harrassing & intimidating' a group of adults with children. My (very small female) partner and I were first on the scene. She immediately shut out the teens and went into 'sympathy' mode with the adult/child group. The teens were very hostile, and I was armed only with a radio, so I called them over and gave them the benefit of the doubt, treated them neutrally, and found out that they had seen the adults tying the kids to trees...and got upset and were trying to stop it (the wrong way, yes).

    Turns out, it was an outpatient visit to the park for severely autistic kids. And at the time....*this was policy!* for restraint when necessary. (Dont ask me!).

    The cops came and immediately also assumed the teens were in the wrong and were a danger...treated them as such, and got nothing out of them. The teens immediately turned hostile again and wouldnt cooperate. (They were street kids, resenting authority, but still had stepped up out of concern for those other kids).

    In the end, as we tried to sort things out, I was the only one the teens would talk to...because I had given them the benefit of the doubt...and that policy of the facility was changed regarding restraining their patients in public (no idea how they handled things on the 'inside.' :-( )

    It was a valuable lesson that there are 2 sides to every story and that you should listen (or observe) first (unless death is imminent).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    So what DO people suggest doing if calling 911 with info isnt enough? (Again, according to scenario, they are already in the car before observer can react). Following the car, if possible, seemed helpful...altho things will get interesting when they reach home.
    Does anyone, including the OP, want to tell us what they'd do differently? What other options they'd consider?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    how about

    shoot the valve stem from the front passenger tire.
    As it deflates run behind and do a heroic leap onto the trunk of the car.
    Slowly climbing up the truck with Glock in teeth till you reach the roof then with your last bit of strength bash in the passenger window and pull the girl out. Then leap off the car as you toss a grenade in the passenger window and do several rolls in the grass, saving the girls life.

    Well I guess it would make a good movie.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Thank you razor02097 for, hopefully, ending this saga on a high note.

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