Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply? - Page 10

Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?

This is a discussion on Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All of the criteria for use of deadly force have been satisfied. The only question remaining is what tactic do I deploy to distract the ...

View Poll Results: Robbed at gunpoint - Fight or comply?

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  • Comply with the BG, give him your $$ and play the odds that he's not going to shoot you if you comply.

    105 31.25%
  • Fight

    231 68.75%
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Thread: Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?

  1. #136
    MJK
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    All of the criteria for use of deadly force have been satisfied. The only question remaining is what tactic do I deploy to distract the BG, create a window and stop the attack.

    The greatest advantage I have is that he does not expect me to resist. I plan to leverage this expectation to my advantage as the scenario unfolds.

    I will survive and the attack will be stopped. The BG may or may not survive, but that is of no concern to me.


  2. #137
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post

    I have practiced drawing from my purse and from holster...and I still fumble the easiest thumb release in IDPA practice sometimes.
    Then maybe you should be rethinking the presence of a thumb release if it's all ready proving to be difficult.

    God Bless people who think they can...and should...draw down on a drawn gun. I will only do so if I truly believe they mean to shoot me after...and the statistics show that most do not.
    I have little to no faith in statistics, and I will not risk becoming a statistic due to them.

    I wouldn't say that I would go to the guns instantly, but it would definitely be on my mind as an option. As with all of the proposed scenarios, there are too many variables to consider and broad brush statements leave too little room for them.

    Compliance is a good choice if you're under the gun, feigning compliance is also a good possibility, going straight for the gun would probably be my last choice unless I saw an opportunity where success was more likely.

  3. #138
    Member Array aric's Avatar
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    It kind of odd that there is such a fear of citizens carrying without state sponsored training, people handling firearms at gunstores or other peoples range practices, but some feel safe that nothing will happen when a bad guy actually has a gun out if you just be nice to him.

  4. #139
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aric View Post
    It kind of odd that there is such a fear of citizens carrying without state sponsored training, people handling firearms at gunstores or other peoples range practices, but some feel safe that nothing will happen when a bad guy actually has a gun out if you just be nice to him.
    The logic eludes me too.

  5. #140
    Member Array tpurdin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i wondered if you would involve yourself in this discussion...with all that youve been through it cant be easy to do...spoken by someone with a real world experience and survival by compliance it bears some weight...

    thank you and best wishes with your current challenges sir...i certainly do hope justice prevails in your situation and i'm glad it has worked out well so far...
    I dont want to offend anyone and I am not pointing fingers at anybody but it really bothers me that there are people out there that have a "hollywood attitude" about Home Defense. I am 100% for defending your home and family and I am 100% for shooting a BG if your life is in danger but I think alot of the "hollywood attitude" people ( ex. "I would make a funny face to distract badguy", or "Throw my wallet in the air and hope the BG drops his gun trying to catch it" or "I would fight even if the BG had a gun pointed at my face at point black range" ) will most likely and hopefully never have a face to face situation with an armed robber but God forbid they do we will be reading about them in the obituaries. I dont think an xbox or a cell phone is worth losing your life over even if the BG takes it at gunpoint. I have stated my opinion above and everyone has one and you dont have to agree with me. Being out of touch with reality will and can get you killed. It's really easy to say I would do this or that and it looks good on the internet but once in a situation like this it only takes one stupid mistake and you and your family could be dead. I would hate to see anyone get hurt because they think that they can draw a firearm on a BG that has his gun pointed at your head at point blank range. I cant remember who made the comment above but they were correct statistics show that if the BG has not shot you before they robbed you then chances are if you can NOT safely defend yourself and you comply they will NOT shoot after the robbery has been commited. Not in ever case but more often that not the people who get shot are the ones that have the "hollywood attitude" and try to pull some crazy stunt to protect themself and it backfires. I am not saying use statistics as your home defense plan either because that could get you killed as well. I am just saying if you have the choice to comply or possibly die then comply until another opportunity arises. To use a real life situation if someone told you that you had a 1 in a 1,000 chance to win the lottery but you had to buy a ticket with your life savings I doubt any of you would put your life on a 1% chance, probably not even a 50% chance. I am NOT saying "complying" is the best way to go I am just saying with all the variables choose wisely and if your under the gun avoid drawing foolishly and exhaust all other options.

    Once again, I hope I did not offend anyone the reason for the post was to hopefully let people realize that its easier to type about than it is to do. I totally agree with training but remember for every action there is a reaction. I do have training but not as much as some senior members but I have real life experience ( which i wish never happend ) and I dont want to see my worst enemy go through what my family and I had to go through.
    Check out my site Black Barn Home Defense with forums at www.bbdefense.info

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCohodas View Post
    Assess the situation and then decide?!?!

    This is so far outside my skill set that I can't imagine it. Fight, and I mean fight immediately is the only practical option within my age and abilities.
    +++1

    The situation has already been assessed.......every day if you carry.

    Stay cool and do what you have already decided was going to be done.

    Seriously.............the scenerio should go through your mind every day you walk out your door with a gun at the ready.......you plan to draw and fire.......that is what is going to happen......
    Last edited by crankinNM; March 14th, 2010 at 01:12 AM. Reason: corrected spelling "out"

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
    All of you heros (well 99%) of you need to go get a little training and LEARN ...................All of this hero crap is awsome on the internet. I suspect some of you need to get a little age on you and get some wisdom in you.................. If he is within reach, you have a much better chance of disarming him H2H, than you do drawing and shooting him. Take some classes, get some training and good luck to all of you.
    con·de·scend·ing   /ˌkɒndəˈsɛndɪŋ/ Show Spelled[kon-duh-sen-ding] Show IPA
    –adjective
    showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority:

    When you walk out the door with a gun at the ready, you are prepairing to NOT comply..........H2H sounds like hero stuff to me......really I use my hands on my job and I am not planning on using them as weapons........my mind is made up......I'm not talking as a hero......

    I have a strong conviction just as you do. Both of our possitions leave room for us to loose our lives. Good luck to you.

  8. #143
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
    If he is within reach, you have a much better chance of disarming him H2H, than you do drawing and shooting him.
    H2H sounds like hero stuff to me......really I use my hands on my job and I am not planning on using them as weapons.
    crankinNM:

    What I hear mirage2521 saying is this: It's a fool's hope, an "internet hero's" hope, to think one is likely to draw quickly enough to defeat an already-drawn gun. It's possible, sure, through subterfuge and if the right time presents itself, however without those it's not likely at all for most folks.

    Hence, the suggestion of the need to rely upon H2H skills for disarming the attacker holding a gun so closely, if a person is to have a good chance of avoiding being gunned down. What I heard was less denigration and condescension than sputtering disbelief in such total confidence that a person is likely to draw/fire quickly enough to avoid death in such a situation.

    Either way, it's all a guess. Every situation is different. Every person's skills, quickness and "eye" in such situations is different. One had better be decently trained, in order to disarm a person holding you at gunpoint so closely. One had also better be quick, time it right, and be utterly ruthless and explosively aggressive.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  9. #144
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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned. If you shoot him he can still shoot you, if not immediately immobilized. But the opposite is also true. You pull, he shoots, you can still shoot if not immobilized. His success rate just went drastically down. And there will be a moment of opportunity when his mind is registering that the thing is your hand isn't a wallet, especially if you're blading and feigning compliance.
    Aim small, miss small - "Patriot"

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned. If you shoot him he can still shoot you, if not immediately immobilized. But the opposite is also true. You pull, he shoots, you can still shoot if not immobilized. His success rate just went drastically down. And there will be a moment of opportunity when his mind is registering that the thing is your hand isn't a wallet, especially if you're blading and feigning compliance.
    I mentioned it a couple of times. Yup...he's still likely to get a chance to pull his trigger too. Instant stopping is rare.

    That's why CQC (or H2H) is what's often recommended by the experts in such a situation if you are going to try anything at all.

    "Proximity overcomes skill" (I forget the exact quote).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #146
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Then maybe you should be rethinking the presence of a thumb release if it's all ready proving to be difficult.

    It was just one example. (And the safety factor of a retention device is equally as important. I continue to practice.)

    How about clearing your shirt/jacket out of the way? Multiple layers? Do you get that perfect everytime? Just that shift of your body to access the gun....how good are you at minimizing/hiding that? And then releasing your retention device? Perfect everytime?

    You'd better be....cuz once you make that decision, your life depends on it to be perfect...when we all know we wont be functioning optimally.


    In my replies, I weigh my skill level against the situation. I feel that many people here are ridiculously confident about theirs. I have been in deadly situations....entering a confined space with a panicking 1200 lb animal, thrashing bone and metal....and fingers fumbling with buckles and knots and straps that can normally be undone blindly and in my sleep. My fingers just did not function the way I demanded...and I was thinking very clearly. Happened more than once.

    Unless you are exmilitary or experienced LEO, I dont think alot of people have experienced those 'adreneline dumps' and **still had to function.**


    I have little to no faith in statistics, and I will not risk becoming a statistic due to them.

    That's why I said it depended on my reading of the bg & the surroundings.


    .....
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #147
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    ... sputtering disbelief ...
    Great phrase!
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

  13. #148
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    I know me and at some point there's gonna be some hair brains and teeth all over the place. They ain't gonna be mine either!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  14. #149
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    I would comply and let him have my things, but would not hesitate to draw and fire if he did not just take my things and run off.

  15. #150
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    Like most people, it depends for me.

    However, I plan on defending myself as the default plan when my life is in danger. I've decided this since I can control my preparation and training, I cannot control when a bg will strike, how he will strike, and what his motivations will be.

    Knowing what I can control and what I can't, I figure my best chances are to maximize the variables I can control and then use them to my advantage. This means carrying a weapon I am familiar with and being well trained (a life long pursuit).

    But like I said, it still depends. If a home invasion occurs when I'm in the shower, I'm more likely to comply as a naked unarmed man. Just don't tell my local BGs.
    Crime should be outlawed.

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