Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply? - Page 6

Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?

This is a discussion on Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by b1780 It depends on the circumstances. If my wife and daughter are present the decision is rather simple. Good night bad guy. ...

View Poll Results: Robbed at gunpoint - Fight or comply?

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  • Comply with the BG, give him your $$ and play the odds that he's not going to shoot you if you comply.

    105 31.25%
  • Fight

    231 68.75%
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Thread: Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?

  1. #76
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1780 View Post
    It depends on the circumstances. If my wife and daughter are present the decision is rather simple. Good night bad guy. If it is just me, well perhaps more time is available to see how it plays out. Being ex military I may look at this a bit differently, but if my loved ones are present and threatend then its lights out.
    If your loved ones are there and you don't have an Invisible Cone of Safety that is going to appear around them then you are the one who is putting them at risk. By escalating the situation. If the BG start pulling his trigger, whether you hit him or not. do you think that some how your loved ones are magically impervious to gunfire?
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan


  2. #77
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    What about grabbing the BG's gun in such a way as to a) cause a failure to eject/feed or b) prevent the cylinder from rotating in the case of a revolver. Yes, one shot will likely get off but better than the BG emptying his gun into you. All the time you're going for your gun. This presumes the BG is close enough to you to do so.

  3. #78
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I comply, while watching for an advantage. If I get enough of one AND I get a feeling this isn't going to end well, I fight. The wallet is a lot less money than hospital bills, legal fees or both.

    If my wife is along, she needs to start bawling and fall down crying while grabbing the .380 from her purse as I half-turn to her and draw.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  4. #79
    DM2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapRackBang View Post
    One thing not discussed here was situational awareness..

    I could not imagine someone just walking up to me when I am at my car without me knowing..I am one untrusting SOB.

    If someone is walking toward me he will be met with immediate eye contact and if there is anything in his hands I'm moving towards him and away from my family. My wife has seen me in target lock enough to know to not follow and move to somewhere safe.

    You need to proactive way before the gunfight starts.

    I know thats not the senario but needed to be said.
    I'm in total agreement with the above...

    About two months ago, a close friend of mine was robbed by three BGs with a fourth behind the wheel. All were armed. My friend had a CPL license and was a licensed firearms dealer before the laws changed. However, due to a situation at work he has to re-apply for the CPL. He still carries at home which is a co-operative apartment complex.

    His problem was he assumed he knew one of the young men in the car as it approached and he relaxed his SA. The consequence of that assumption was three guns drawn in an instant. These BG's actually searched my friend and found the holster in the small of his back that he always wears. Panic took over as the BG's didn't want to leave because they couldn't find the gun. He didn't have it because he was arriving home. Fortunately, no shots were fired and my friend wasn't injured, however, they took any and everything they could find on him and in his car to insure that he didn't shoot before they could get away. Things de-escalated because of an approaching car which just happened to be occupied by an off-duty police officer. There are several that live in the complex.

    The officer followed in an attempt to get a plate number at which time shots were fired at him and he ended the pursuit. Before he could get my friend to the police station to file the report, the BG's had robbed another victim.

    My friend was lucky, although he didn't/and still doesn't see it that way because he always had an idea in his head of how that situation, should he find himself there, would go. His philosophy was he'd die before he gave up his possessions. (silly I know, but that's him plus he's a know-it-all and you can't tell him anything).

    It may be naive thinking, but I tend to lean toward BG's taking the goods and running here in Detroit because they know if they can get away, the chances are pretty high that they will not be caught. I know that's not always the case so please don't blast me on that statement. However, it is no secret in Detroit that police response is too slow, if at all. If no one is injured or dead, it may be tomorrow before they show up (several hours at a minimum).

    Based on news reports and stories from my cop friends, BGs who are intent on shooting, shoot first then take your stuff. A robbery of a 17 year old today outside of his school is a perfect example of this. He was shot while sitting in his car and the BG stole his designer glasses. Police aren't sure it this was more than a simple robbery but it supports my point right now.

    Anyway, sorry for the long post before getting to my point, which is SA, SA, SA. It's the best initial defense we have. After that, your response has to depend on your particular circumstance at that time.

    BTW, about three weeks after my friend was robbed, his wallet and car keys arrived in the mail minus the credit cards and cash. The credit cards were used to purchase gas minutes after the robbery. Of course the brand new iPod touch, Blackberry telephone and other electronic accessories were never recovered.

    Be Safe, Stay Aware and Stay Armed.
    DM2
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    "I did the thing I feared the most. Excuse me while I cheer. Now here I stand a stronger soul and all I lost was fear." ...Anonymous

  5. #80
    Member Array golfnguns's Avatar
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    Well, I choose to come out alive, both my wife and me. The key word here, obviously, is opportunity. There's not a court east of California that'll convict you of shooting an armed assailant. On the other hand, if you feel you're really stuck, and the BG means business, and you know it, then toss him the keys and cash. I don't think we train to be heroes; we train to come out alive, right?

    So let's train harder.
    "I believe that's my stapler."

    NRA Member for Life
    "I can not, for all the Stars in Heaven, find one instance or occasion or a living example of a woman who gave birth to anything but another human being, regardless of the period of time that baby was in the womb".

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    (This isnt aimed just at this poster....it's just something to consider when you choose 'to go down fighting' over your wallet.)
    While I won't deny that you have a point, it's about more than a wallet to me. It's about some punk pointing a deadly weapon at me, attempting to take by force what I've rightfully earned. It's not about the wallet, it's about principles. He's willing to threaten my life for something he hasn't earned.
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  7. #82
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    While I won't deny that you have a point, it's about more than a wallet to me. It's about some punk pointing a deadly weapon at me, attempting to take by force what I've rightfully earned. It's not about the wallet, it's about principles. He's willing to threaten my life for something he hasn't earned.
    No problem, that is your right.

    I hope that there is no one behind you, nor an apartment or crowded store...or behind him....when you both start shooting.

    Otherwise, I have no problem with you standing up for your principles. Does your family?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #83
    Member Array Nova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    "Proximity beats skill" Your accuracy wont matter....he'll be shooting first.

    They have run these drills a million times. You wont be drawn and even point shooting before he's shooting. Even if he's expecting a wallet. All he has to do is pull the trigger. (And did you already check your backstop???? That takes time too....and he could care less about that)

    In such situations, if you are going to fight back close quarters combat is what is recommended....not going for your gun.

    Among other sources, "The Book of Combat Handgunnery," M. Ayoob.

    Not to mention my favorite....shooting rarely stops them immediately, ever. You're gonna get hurt, if not dead.

    Unless I'm darn sure he'll kill me anyway, I'm giving him my purse.

    (This isnt aimed just at this poster....it's just something to consider when you choose 'to go down fighting' over your wallet.)
    I appreciate the advice and could definitely learn a lot about this. I'll look into Massad's combat handgunnery book there.

    I'd definitely prefer to fight, but if there is a way to do that is more likely to ensure success, I am open to that.
    Springfield XD45 4" 13+1

  9. #84
    Member Array Intrepid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    What if he shoots you and then picks up the wallet? This isnt a 'secret' strategy.

    If anything, it's a 50-50 call. (how you see the original situation odds may or may not be the same.)
    I'm not standing still at the same time, It would take a lot of willpower to ignore the flying object and shoot a target moving to your flank. Also, talk in a calm voice which will lower his guard. You have to bombard them with so much input that they can't possibly react to me tossing my wallet with a shot.

  10. #85
    Member Array Nova's Avatar
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    Would anyone consider employing a knife in this situation? I don't carry a knife in my current setup - only a pistol and OC spray.

    Perhaps a good idea would be to reach for his gun, knife him in the eye/face?

    Should I add a knife to my setup for this type of situation?
    Springfield XD45 4" 13+1

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Would anyone consider employing a knife in this situation? I don't carry a knife in my current setup - only a pistol and OC spray.

    Perhaps a good idea would be to reach for his gun, knife him in the eye/face?

    Should I add a knife to my setup for this type of situation?
    Look into close quarters combat & martial arts techniques. They have maneuvers to attempt this. (without knives. You end up using his gun or yours).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #87
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Would anyone consider employing a knife in this situation? I don't carry a knife in my current setup - only a pistol and OC spray.

    Perhaps a good idea would be to reach for his gun, knife him in the eye/face?

    Should I add a knife to my setup for this type of situation?
    You ever hear about "bringing a knife to a gunfight"?

  13. #88
    Member Array golfnguns's Avatar
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    If paaiyan feels that strongly about the "principle", then I suppose paaiyan is free to take the risk. Or maybe that's increase the risk of a negative outcome with collaterals.
    Risks: 1) is the BG intent on getting what he wants no matter the cost; 2) is the BG strung out, high on God knows what, or sober (goes to ability to carry out the task at hand); 3) is the gun loaded; 4) have you trained for this situation; 5) does your wife know what's going on and how to react. 6)
    He's willing to threaten my life for something he hasn't earned.
    If he's willing to threaten, he's probably also willing to kill you and the Mrs for the $27 in your wallet. 7) Happy with the lighting? your positioning? distance, access to firearm, etc. Even if you had all these conditions in your favor, the risks seem to outweigh the questionable principle for which you are fighting. No offense, brother. Just man to man.
    Pick your battles. And yes, take the opportunity when you can. I too hate the thought of someone putting my family and me in mortal danger just for another hit of gasoline of whatever. But do it after having taken that extra half-second to judge risk/reward outcomes. I have found that the odds of another opportunity to act after the initial flush or reaction to bodily harm has occurred is quite high. In other words, I think you'll find another chance to act after the first one if you look for it (it does go by pretty darn fast), and if you've set your mind to a particular course of action.
    Bottom line, I want you to live, and I bet your wife would want the same. Be blessed, brother.
    "I believe that's my stapler."

    NRA Member for Life
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  14. #89
    Member Array cdjspider's Avatar
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    It defiantly depends on how the BG is acting and who was with me. If I felt that there was a good chance of getting out of there unhurt by complying I would do so. However, if got the feeling this wasn't going to end well I would do everything I could to make sure I was the one going home alive.

    I know its not likely to out draw a gun thats already pointed at you, but thats why I love my bug, aka LCP. In its holster in my back pocket it looks damn like I'm going for my wallet until your looking down its barrel, especially in low light areas.

    As for the using a knife, I dont think it would be a good idea. The only time I can see it being useful is if it becomes a physical fight over the gun, then you could go to work with it while trying to get the gun.

  15. #90
    Member Array TheoryRealm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Even though for the most part I agree with you, I believe you need to be prepared to be "flamed" by a large number of posters.
    Well....Let's all remember, this is MY life, and MY actions. I determine the outcome of such.
    Stop acting like we're fightin' for "freedom". We are ALREADY....free.

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