Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?
This is a discussion on Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just found out that my cousin was robbed at gunpoint a few weeks back. He doesn't carry.
Apparently he was walking to his car ...
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March 7th, 2010 09:29 AM
Robbed at gunpoint, Fight or Comply?
I just found out that my cousin was robbed at gunpoint a few weeks back. He doesn't carry.
Apparently he was walking to his car when a single BG came up to him, pointed a gun at him and demanded money and his car keys. He complied and the BG took the car and drove away. My cousin and his wife were unhurt.
The question is: if it was you and you were carrying, would you attempt to do something or would you comply and cross your fingers?
I typically cary at 3:30 IWB so it would be easy to draw when feigning a grab for my wallet. BG should be surprised and stuck in an unusually long OODA loop segment. A step off the X, perhaps a sweep with my week hand to push the gun out of the way and a few shots could end things really quickly.
On the other hand, things could go terribly wrong. He could be twitchy and shoot the second fast movement started. Things might not go according to plan. Depending on who's standing where, bumping the BG's gun might end up with it pointing at your spouse etc. Out drawing a gun pointed at you can be bad. etc. etc.
In the scenario described, my cousin was out a few bucks but survived.
So, for whatever reason, you end up with a BG three feet away from you pointing a gun at your face. Your wife is standing next to you. What would you do?
Edit: I know that the short answer is "it depends". What I'm asking though is what's your plan. Do you plan on complying or do you plan on fighting?
March 7th, 2010 09:42 AM
I'm most likely going to fight.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
March 7th, 2010 09:55 AM
It depends on the circumstances, I think.
If it's clear there is no way out, then absolutely fighting out of the situation is called for. Who knows ... lightning may strike.
If it's clear that a change has come over the robber and the moment of truth is rapidly approaching, then now's the time to fight.
If an opportunity presents itself, such as it might with a single robber and multiple potential victims in a group, a person might hide the draw in a moment of inattention. I hope to always be on the watch for such an opportunity, but I have yet to be held under a knife or gun in this situation, so I suppose that it's a question whether I'll be able to do it.
If a loved one is with me, that complicates things. It also clarifies things, making the responsibility and the ramifications stark and clear.
I am nobody's quick-draw McGraw. Never have been. Am training to improve it, but I likely never will be. Let alone with covering garments being in the way.
As well, drawing and firing is hardly the only option. Particularly if the attacker has been stupid enough to get within contact distance. Medical treatment is better these days, and surviving even a couple gunshots is entirely possible. A single attacker can be overcome, and it's even more possible when the single attacker is too obviously arrogant and prideful in his way of dealing with the situation. That can be used against him, potentially. Depends.
But, let's be real. In a robbery situation where the robber has a firearm in hand, is out of contact distance, is clearly attentive and not missing much, there is little to be gained by attempting to draw and fire on him.
So. For me, it depends.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
March 7th, 2010 10:07 AM
Going on what you've presented, it appears the BG has all the advantages.
1. Victim's already been caught off-guard.
2. Bg already has his gun out.
3. Evidently he's prepared to used it.
4. He doesn't have a family member to be concerned with.
5. Et Cetera!
You can try to slyly pull your weapon but you're aready staring down the business end of his. But how long is he going to hesitate before he pulls the trigger when he sees you don't have a wallet in hand?
Despite all the mondo bad-butts who claim they're ready to shoot it out here, I think you can write this one off as a lost cause and hand over what he wants. SA has already failed; the eliment of surprise is gone; the risks of a sucessful SD are low.
Are your keys and cash worth your wife's and your lives if you can't pull this off? I'd hate to risk it on "crossed fingers."
Besides, if he took my vehicle, he'd probably bring it back, hand me someones else's cash and tell me, "Man, you need a new car."
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
March 7th, 2010 10:27 AM
Comply or not
I have been held at gun point before in my car. Trust me all you should do is COMPLY with what he wants. Unless he wants to frisk you to make sure you don't have a weapon or hiding other valuables.. THEN you should fight for your life. It is the reason why sometimes i feel more comfortable carrying in an ankle holster becauase BG wont usually check down there to make sure that you aren't hiding any valuables or a weapon. They sometimes do a quick check around the waist band area and pockets.
I live in a dangerous city and every week in the newspaper there is a story about someone who offered resistance to an armed robber and ended up dead.
Nothing you own is worth your life or the lives of loved ones. Carrying a gun does not mean that you have to draw in a low success probability situation.
Stay safe and always try to remain calm in a holdup...BGs are getting more itchy trigger fingers day by day.
March 7th, 2010 10:31 AM
Unless you can get off a central nervous system immediate stopping hit, even a fatally wounded BG will still have enough conscious time left to kill you.
Odds are all he wants is your money. If that is the sole demand, there is nothing to be gained by not complying.
If he tries to move you to a different location, put you in the trunk or appears to want to do something other than demand money, then, and only then, would it make sense to resist.
March 7th, 2010 10:32 AM
Doing nothing is no guarantee you won't be killed. However going up against an antagonist that has the drop on you is long odds any way you stack it.
"It is better to die on your feet, than to live(or die) on your knees."
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
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March 7th, 2010 10:39 AM
It depends On the three W's & opportunity, SA is the key, If my Wife is with me then I'm going to try to put her & I out of harms way, Same if I'm by myself, But I don't have to worry about her gives me a little more room to DO WHAT I HAVE TOO ; )
A Native Floridian = RARE
IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
March 7th, 2010 10:54 AM
Have to agree with ccw9mm. There is no one clear answer. Each situation has different things that will need to be factored in. What you do in one situation might turn the tables and put the BG under the gun, in another situation it might get you dead. Go with what your gut feeling tell you to do in each situation.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
March 7th, 2010 12:52 PM
I'm gonna comply until he drops his guard then he's getting lead,I know from timed shoots it takes me at least 1.5 seconds to draw from concealment and get the first round off.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
March 7th, 2010 12:55 PM
It depends, but generally if I think I can leverage any advantage, I'll fight.
March 7th, 2010 12:58 PM
I dont carry a pistol fer nothing.
You may not like guns. You may choose not to own one. That is your right.
You might not believe in God. That is your choice.
However, if someone breaks into your home at 3AM the first two things you are going to do are:
1) Call someone with a gun.
2)Pray they get there in time." - A wise man
March 7th, 2010 01:07 PM
True. Too many cases where robbery victims are senselessly murdered even after offering no resistance. It's a tough judgement call but sometimes your best bad option may be to just "flip em the bird and die like a Viking".
Originally Posted by sgb
(With apologies to Treo).
March 7th, 2010 01:14 PM
That's a tough one, but in your cousin's situation I would have given him my $$ and car keys, and as he got into the car (with any distractions), or after getting in...BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.
Officer, I feared for my life, the guy said he was going to kill me, I gave him my $$ and keys, and he said that he was still going to kill me.
I had to save my own life. You can plainly see the gun he had, laying over there next to parts of his I.Q.
I will answer any other questions that you may have with my attorney present.
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
March 7th, 2010 01:15 PM
+1 there is a reason we train.
Originally Posted by Arko
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
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