Too much Black and White
This is a discussion on Too much Black and White within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It seems to me that many people see things too much in the black and white in the scenarios that get posted in here sometimes. ...
March 7th, 2010 03:11 PM
Too much Black and White
It seems to me that many people see things too much in the black and white in the scenarios that get posted in here sometimes. They are always food for thought and wrapping your head around the "What ifs" ahead of time is of great value. The wealth of personal experience and knowledge here is huge. And most of the advice given is sound.
But we must realize that the number of variables in each situation will dictate how we answer each question. We unfortunately live in a world of gray and it helps to remember that. Keeping your head on a swivel and avoidance are the two greatest assets that we can possibly have. I don't mean walking around scared or paranoid. Living in fear is no way to go, that is why we believe in being prepared.
When I took my wonderful Drivers Ed (driving portion) I was blessed with an instructor that imparted a little nugget of knowledge that can be applied to many things in life.
When approaching an intersection with a green light, say to yourself, "I can, I can, I can, I can, I can,,,, I can't." Meaning if the light turned yellow right now could you stop safely before the light turned red. Once you reach the I can't stage you are committed to your course and should continue with it.
When the question is raised about "You are confronted by an armed attacker" each of us has to run through a similar process in our minds. Can I run, Can I use Non-lethal deterrent, Can I use a knife, Can I use a gun, I Can't safely so I'll comply, etc. This has to be evaluated instant by instant as we go through each scenario. Am I alone? Do I have loved ones with me? Am I willing to risk personal injury to myself? How does the situation change if something distracts the attacker. Can I "clear leather" in time if he has a knife? A gun?
Some will argue that if held at gunpoint you should comply because you will end up shot yourself due to time.
Some will argue that you should never comply because being a victim isn't part of their attitude.
Some will argue that your situational awareness was lacking in spotting it in time.
Some will argue that you lacked in judgment by being in a place where it could happen.
But I would say, this world is full of gray. Being at peace with the fact that your life will end someday, and being at peace with your actions leading up to that time is more important. Defending yourself, or a loved one, or complete strangers life, or your own wallet may be what is needed. I hope that none of you will ever have to deal with it but if you do remember to reassess your situation instant by instant. Be aware of your surroundings and available distractions. And be willing to do what it takes to see your loved ones alive for another day. We cannot plan for every eventuality, but the ability to adapt and be flexible when "the Gray" comes is what gives us the edge to succeed.
Now I'm going to go drink some coffee and wake up the rest of the way. Hope it's some food for thought when responding to situations posted here.
To those that paid for my freedom,
I WILL NEVER FORGET.
As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.
March 7th, 2010 03:11 PM
March 7th, 2010 04:13 PM
Let me be the first one to agree with you on this. That's why sometimes I don't vote in polls posted here; many times the choices are absolute when the right answer depends on many factors and circumstances.
Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC
¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués
March 7th, 2010 04:14 PM
It's never black and white.
Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"
March 7th, 2010 04:17 PM
Each scenario will be different, and one has to be there to have a real grasp. I can't answer for you, nor you for me.
Remember, the I can, I can, I can, I can...I can't decision may have to be made in a second or two...
If one decides the 'I can' direction, it better be as fast as possible and violent...no fair fights...second place is a bummer, but then, you already knew that.
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
March 7th, 2010 04:20 PM
I've spent my life searching out and living in the gray areas of tax law. Does that count?
Actually, I agree with your post, but the traffic light analogy is only good for traffic lights and the like.........
NRA Life Member
"But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"
"You may think I'm pompous, but actually I'm pedantic... let me explain the difference."
"Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything."
March 7th, 2010 04:41 PM
Clint Eastwood was not kidding for those of us that were in the Military and those who have learned this over the years.
You improvise, you adapt and you overcome. There are grey areas they just do not always apply to every situation, sometimes they do and sometimes situations are just black and white. It's up to us to figure out which is which.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
March 7th, 2010 07:23 PM
The problem I see is that a lot of people "what if" a scenario to death. They seem to have a agenda and they are going to what if the situation until it agrees with their mindset.
March 8th, 2010 03:54 AM
The only thing for certain is you will probably need new underwear after its over
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
March 8th, 2010 06:39 AM
The "what ifs" are important to consider. Planning and training should incorporate some of it. And since there will always be others that have experienced much the same situation, there will often be much to learn from kicking around the possibilities, limitations. It's those "grey" areas where pat answers often don't quite work.
Originally Posted by FknRa
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
March 8th, 2010 09:27 AM
It does make you go through a decision making process and look at options that you probably wouldn't otherwise consider. The bottomline is...do you act, or not? Then it's a matter of timing the action.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
March 8th, 2010 01:39 PM
I agree that people get too bogged down in the b&w.
The purpose of the scenarios is to examine all angles and what ifs. (at least for me, to learn). Each gives food for thought.
In the other thread with a poll about being robbed at gunpoint, people mentioned throwing the wallet (or purse). Ayoob also discusses this.
So I started thinking how smart it would be to employ this. And I think that just tossing it at them/too them, esp. with an attitude, would be a mistake. They're not stupid. And they've probably done this before. It could just piss them off and they can just shoot you and then pick it up.
However, acting scared & confused, and submissively tossing it to them or at their feet....then maybe you might lull them into a more secure state of mind.
In either case....you have no idea if it will work. You'll be there gauging the situation as it comes. But considering the refinements ahead of time is just one more weapon in your arsenal (if you remember!)
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
March 8th, 2010 02:10 PM
You know the defensive scenario section is great for bouncing ideas around maybe getting someone's take on a situation that you didn't think of. Its obvious that nobody can predict exactly what would happen in a particular situation.
If everyone is going to shun black and white responses then why have the thread in the first place, IMO "gray" responses like "well it depends on _____ (fill in the blank)" don't contribute a whole heck of a lot to a thread. I know there are way to many variables to say a definite answer but most scenarios will likely have the same responses... either "be a good witness and escape" or "take cover and fight"
For anyone that has actually been in a situation where their very life is at stake you would know that you have a fraction of a second to figure out how to get your butt out of trouble.
It always boils down to 3 options...
- Comply and put your life in the BG's hands.
- Escape and if you do put all your energy, being and life on achieving it and get the hell out of dodge no matter what.
- Or fight and if you do make it so your opponent is completely overwhelmed. Don't give him a chance to fight back. There is no rules there are no referees. Eye gouging and a power kick to the testicles is acceptable defense. Get primitive if you must JUST MAKE THE THREAT STOP!
Either option you end up choosing pretty much follows up with a call to emergency services. Police arriving and taking a report.
Remember this is a public online forum. Its suppose to be fun. Don't get dragged down by some response you don't like
There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
March 8th, 2010 04:26 PM
The only thing that is Black and White in every defensive scenario is are you alive or are you dead (then you don't have to worry about it)!
March 8th, 2010 04:30 PM
its called "tactical drama" and it is a very effective technique that is taught to people who dont want to be victims of crimes as a diversionary tactic....similarly when told to raise your hands you are being told to move your hands through an offensive posture that could be used to your advantage...the bad guy expects your hads to go up...with enough tactical drama your hands could be on their way up when you choose to strike...
Originally Posted by 9MMare
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