This is a discussion on How Many Shots Are Too Many (Legal Question) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This points out yet another reason why to carry loaded with hollow points. Takes less rounds to stop a threat than when using FMJ's....
This points out yet another reason why to carry loaded with hollow points.
Takes less rounds to stop a threat than when using FMJ's.
CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
When I instructed MOUT classes I would tell my students to "Kill the target until it is dead". I dont believe the same applies in the civilian world. If I was to teach a civilian class it might go like this "Shoot the threat until it is no more". That may still be too harsh for some of the liberals, but it is as close to politically correct as a self defense situation will ever be. Controlled pair, reassess over the top of the still aimed pistol, controlled pair would seem to be a good practice. When one is shooting because they fear for their life, they are going to resort to whatever training they have had. Some people will have no training and will dump the whole magazine without thinking twice and will probably only hit the threat a few times. Others will place well aimed shots because they have basic fundamentals instilled in them and will eliminate the threat faster. As has been said by others shoot until the threat is gone, whether that is 1 round or 22 it will be determined by you, the one who is threatened.
12smile- I believe you are asking for trouble by shooting the threat once it is down. It sounds like a great plan and looks cool in movies, but I am 98% sure it would land you in jail or find you paying huge bucks outta your pocket after a civil suit is filed. Just think about the BGs testimony in court " Once he shot me I saw the error of my ways and envisioned a life of working hard and earning my money, but then he shot me again and now I am permanently handicapped and will be unable to provide a legitimate income to support my family (sniff, sniff, wipe tear)"
Last edited by Bkrazy; March 14th, 2010 at 10:31 AM.
Everything comes down to testIFYING in court, if you fire your weapon five times... then your accountable for why each bullet/projectile was fired and where it hits. Good Luck.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
After a self defense shooting I'm guessing most folks wouldn't be able to remember how many rounds they fired. If you truly are in fear of your life I would expect that all rounds would be expended into the bad guy. If you re-loaded and continued to shoot when the bad guy was down then you might have a problem.
I seriously doubt a DA would try to make an issue out of how many rounds were fired by a civilian in a situation where there was a clear bad guy vs good guy scenario and the good guy emptied his gun in a couple of seconds.
Before anyone posts a story about how this actually happened, I'm not talking about a domestic dispute situation, or some other situation with extenuating circumstances. I'm talking about bad guy breaks into home, gas station robbery, etc.
My instructor always told me it would be better for you when the cops rolled up if you were standing there in a trance pulling the trigger over and over on an empty cylinder!
One problem with giving your entire magazine to the BG, is that you have nothing left to give his friend.
Last edited by pgrass101; March 15th, 2010 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Removed personal comments
I read somewhere once that the average person that gets into a gun fight for there first time does not think at all and emptys every round they have and continue to dry fire for several second because the adrenalin takes over your brain and tells you to run or fight you chose fight so your body does the rest for you so in order to really say you would just double tap you would probably have to be trained and have been in a real situation to be able to control your emotions. just a thought on some stats i read once. we can all dump 100 of rounds at a paper target but untill there is a pulse in the paper its not the same.
If the threat is down and IS NO LONGER a threat, you cease action other than covering the threat. IF aggressions continue, you may act to defend yourself, but knee capping/beating with a bat is a no-go. How that can even enter one's mind as a good idea is beyond me.
Please, please look into a Judicious Use of Deadly Force class or some other class that will at least touch on these subjects. The $400ish you'll spend will save you some serious legal trouble. And you are in obvious need of schooling on the matter.
There's no rule that says someone laying down isn't a threat. He could easily still move to fire if he has a gun. So there should be no qualms about shooting again, if need be, just because someone is on the ground.
As to training with pre-conceived shot counts, LEO have DIED doing this. Popping two into the BG and automatically holstering, just like they did at the range. BG then shoots back. People have been killed with shot up hearts, yet still continue to function for several seconds after "death" running only on adrenaline.
As the saying goes "Do NOT shoot until you think he's dead, KEEP shooting until HE thinks he's dead"
With the little training I've had, the instructor told us more than once - "Fire until the target falls off the front sight, and then assess the situation." Basically once he's down, assess what's going on. If he's still trying to fight, neutralize the threat. If he's lying there, bleeding out, regretting he messed with you... keep him covered and call the cops.
To even think about, let alone verbalizing in a public forum, the excessive force to a downed and non-threatening opponent to "teach him his lesson" or to "teach him to stay down" is downright absurd. Yes, there's a pride in all of us that says, "How dare he attack me," but rub your two brain cells together before you act on that impulse - and certainly don't feed it by fantasizing how you would hurt him in that situation.
Last edited by HotGuns; March 15th, 2010 at 10:45 PM. Reason: language workaround
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost