This is a discussion on How Many Shots Are Too Many (Legal Question) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Ronny Shoot until subject is dead. Then 2 through the brains to make sure they don't turn zombie. Darnit, I forgot all ...
You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to survive.
FYI: I am not a lawyer, the son of a lawyer nor have I every played a lawyer on TV and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!
First of all - thank you for your service, skysoldier.
IMO - it is simply about removing the threat. Your military training of two quick shots to centermass will normally remove any threat unless the BG is wearing body-armor - if that is the case, your problems are much more serious than round-count.
This is not about math but about taking a BG out in a life threatening scenario. I would hate to see anyone in a situation where they failed to protect themselves or their loved ones due to worry about legal issues, and wind up being shot or killed themselves.
Stay vigilant and protect your rights!
EDC - S&W M&P .45
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take." Thomas Jefferson
Awhile ago in Houston, TX, HPD got in a shooting where about 30 shots were fired within a minute or so, it was at one guy in a room they considered a threat to their safety. Most shots were fired by one officer. He emptied a mag. and reloaded and fired more shots.
You should heard the bleeding hearts crying foul. but the D.A. at the time gave an analogy , "if it is OK to kill a guy dead, it is OK to kill him dead, dead, dead."
However like they said in earlier replies, two quick shots to center mass of the bad guy usually is sufficient.
Total rounds fired are strictly based on if the threat still exists.
Rule of thumb, or at least it should be a rule of thumb, is based on military training. 2 quick, but well placed bullets to center of mass, then reevaluate the situation.
Reevaluation of the situation doesn't require you to holster your gun and ask the BG if he/she's done. Reevaluation can take place in 2 seconds, maybe less.
I train to shoot 2, reevaluate and shoot 2 more if necessary, reevaluate and shoot 2 more if necessary, reevaluate...
The "Reason" behind 2 shots can be directly linked to the Military, which is a GOOD thing for your legal protection.
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." * "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."
In Kentucky the law is you only fire a firearm in a life and death situation. If you shoot to wound you will be in trouble. I was told by a few cop buddies and a couple of lawyers if you shoot a bad guy and don't kill him you had better testify that you tried to kill him and missed.
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
It comes down to your testimony on the stand, why you shot once or needed to shoot 50 times, justifying the use of deadly force and the amount of force needed is crucial. According To Your State Laws Apply.
However there are jurisdictions that have suttle (and sometimes not suttle) differences. For example some jurisdictions have the castle doctrine in place, while others have a requirement to retreat.
Hopefully someone here can provided you with relevant information for that jurisdiction, and provide a place for you to verify it (maybe a state website).
Just to throw a wrench into the works, consider if you might be held to a different standard because of your military training (could work for you or against you).
No matter what, don't let this chatter as what to do here mess with your head in the sandbox. Keep to the training and ROE.
S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
The "controlled pair" ot "two shots then evaluate" is designed for reflexive fire or close quaters scenarios where there may be/is likely to be multiple enemies. It's not meant to be fire two shots and quit. It's meant to be... fire two shots, and make sure there's no one else shooting at you. You don't want to unload a magazine, focused on one threat, while two more unload on you. So, it's a controlled pair at the immediate threat, evaluate and engage additional threats.
On this topic however, I think how many shots are too many depends on where you are at and what that states case law looks like. I had some unofficial legal advice from a cop friend a few years ago that said in his experience, people who unloaded the weapon on the BG faired better because a jury believed they must have really feared for their life to do so. That was his opinion though, and by no means valid case law.
AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig
In the heat of action and passion, most people will probably simply empty their weapons, and not that accurately, usually from handguns. This may or may not be good but it is understood...unless somebody has the time and the mind to deliberately take aim at long range. "If you are far enough away to aim your gun, you are far enough away to run." Quote: Leon Harrison