Sheepdogs and Wolves

This is a discussion on Sheepdogs and Wolves within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bad title on the OP. It really has nothing to do with the Sheepdog Syndrome and it is almost impossible to not hijack the thread ...

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Thread: Sheepdogs and Wolves

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Bad title on the OP. It really has nothing to do with the Sheepdog Syndrome and it is almost impossible to not hijack the thread to get back to the title.

    Going with the original post, I have some observations. I worked as a Behavior Intervention Teacher in both DYD Placement Home and in public school system. My M.A. was in Behavior Intervention (Special Education) In my 9 years as a BI teacher (before switching to mainstream Special Ed) I came to realize the impact of Virtual Reality Games (Video games) on violent and behavior challenged children. The ability to wreak havoc and then reset to start again without actual casualties appears to give them a false mindset. They begin to believe that violence is instant gratification but not permanent in nature. The value of the human life is reduced to a game score. They have no requirement to enter human values into the arena of play.

    As to whether this is the cause of their challenge, I do not harbor the belief that Video Games turn normal kids into monsters. I played cowboys and indians and War when I was a kid. I read some pretty gory comic books and none of this turned me into a homicidal maniac. I think the negative impact is on children who are already disturbed for one reason or another. Unfortunately this is the group that is normally left to their own amusement , due to their anti-social behaviors, and Video Games are an effective way to keep them out of their parents' hair.

    This is not the observation of a "rich kid" college liberal. I spent 30 years active duty in the USMC, six years of that in Vietnam in Combat before entering teaching. I have killed, many times and I know, first-hand what real killing feels like. Some of my BI students did go on into crime and yes, they did hurt and kill. And they have no remorse. It was a game.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    I watched reruns of Gunsmoke and John Wayne movies all through my childhood. They killed people, and I don't ever want to kill anyone.
    You read what I wrote, but you didn't read what I wrote.

    Hop, Cisco, and Roy never killed anyone, much less seriously wounded them. But, then the violence progressed to Matt Dillion killing a BG--sans blood--to where now the Good Guy can dodge 500rounds of automatic weapons fire while dropping 10-15 BGs with single shot from his Berretta (Bruce Willis, if you please).

    It's the progression of violence on the screens that has made us immune to the horror of violence. Plus the unrealistic special effects and immunity to harm for the GGs makes some, not all, think they are beyond it "happening to me."
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    Treo, if you actually read the article or went to one of Dr Grossman's seminars you would find that alot of what Dr Grossman is refering to are soldiers and police - the people who have chosen a lifestyle which involves "protecting the flock". You dont like CHP holders that feel some obligation to help others - thats fine. Have you ever stopped on the side of the road to help some lady change a tire? what about helping an old couple with a heavy shopping cart? these are the things that civilized people do for each other. I dont feel a need to go rushing into a dangerous situation because I might be hero - I certainly hope I wouldnt hesitate to help some one who is genuinely in trouble with ANY of the tools or skill that I possess.
    You hit the nail on the head with this one. Couldn't agree more. Is anyone obligated to assist me when I'm in nead? No. Would I hope someone would? Certainly.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc3169 View Post
    Treo, if you actually read the article or went to one of Dr Grossman's seminars you would find that alot of what Dr Grossman is refering to are soldiers and police - the people who have chosen a lifestyle which involves "protecting the flock". You dont like CHP holders that feel some obligation to help others - thats fine. Have you ever stopped on the side of the road to help some lady change a tire? what about helping an old couple with a heavy shopping cart? these are the things that civilized people do for each other. I dont feel a need to go rushing into a dangerous situation because I might be hero - I certainly hope I wouldnt hesitate to help some one who is genuinely in trouble with ANY of the tools or skill that I possess.
    Well said.

    Denigrations of CHL holders' motivations aside, a basic willingness to help others seems to be one of the hallmark traits of upstanding people. At least in this regard, we share some of the characteristics of the group of people terms by Grossman as "sheepdogs," whether we choose to protect a "flock" of others or not.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I post the following



    Almost everytime the topic comes up but Isee no conection (other than the title) in this thread
    I have his book "On Killing." Grossman's definition of 'sheepdog' is based pretty strictly on psychology and is not the same as most people use it here.
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  7. #21
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    Be very cautious citing Grossman. He's been caught misinterpreting, exaggerating, or out and out lying in his work.

    Simply put, as video game usage has skyrocketed, juvenile violent crime has plummeted. He's a sensationalist.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    You read what I wrote, but you didn't read what I wrote.

    Hop, Cisco, and Roy never killed anyone, much less seriously wounded them. But, then the violence progressed to Matt Dillion killing a BG--sans blood--to where now the Good Guy can dodge 500rounds of automatic weapons fire while dropping 10-15 BGs with single shot from his Berretta (Bruce Willis, if you please).

    It's the progression of violence on the screens that has made us immune to the horror of violence. Plus the unrealistic special effects and immunity to harm for the GGs makes some, not all, think they are beyond it "happening to me."
    Ah, I get it now.
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Overexposure to glamorized violence, lack of quality leadership (parenting), and the violence inherent in human nature are probably the three most influential elements. But it has to be kept in mind that these elements must act on that fourth variable: Personality. Children can be molded and shaped, but people tend to forget that the "clay" they're working with has its own unique properties. Babies are not all born the same (or even nearly the same) and each will have it's own individual response to the exact same stimulus.

    The media empire keeps upping the ante. Why? Because it's a strict business response to a buying trend established by the public. Sex and violence sell; more sex and more violence sell even better. People individually want to indulge their morbid desire for graphic violence and simply cannot accept the fact that this has a broad, collective cost.

    People seem to think that "freedom to choose" means "freedom from consequences" after the choice is made.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  10. #24
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    Anytime I hear sheepdog, just seems like the person has a chip on their shoulder. Protecting those that don't protect themselves? Depends on who. I guess if you're referencing my family as sheep. If the term is used in reference to the public as a whole (whom we commonly like to call sheep), then no.


    Regardless, I'm no sheep dog. I'm the black lab in the house down the street that will do the right thing when necessary, but claims no responsibility to anyone but his family.

  11. #25
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    Oh good gawd, are we really going to do this whole sheepdog thing again?

    Hey stevem174, pass the popcorn will ya?
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper View Post
    oh good gawd, are we really going to do this whole sheepdog thing again?

    Hey stevem174, pass the popcorn will ya?
    lol lmbo
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Jumpwing hit the nail on the head.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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