Letter to restaurant management about "no firearms" sign

This is a discussion on Letter to restaurant management about "no firearms" sign within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a letter I wrote to a local establishment today after seeing a "no firearms" poster at their entrance last night. ----- Tonight was my ...

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Thread: Letter to restaurant management about "no firearms" sign

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array AzB's Avatar
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    Letter to restaurant management about "no firearms" sign

    Here's a letter I wrote to a local establishment today after seeing a "no firearms" poster at their entrance last night.

    -----
    Tonight was my first visit. On Monday nights we have a group that gets together for dinner and a few beers. (I do not drink, but the rest do) We usually go to the same place every week, and someone mentioned trying somewhere new. Taco Mac. So we tried it.

    It was a great experience that everyone enjoyed, but we will not be going back. Upon entering, I noticed a "no firearms" sign. I have a GFL, and legally carry a firearm at all times. I ate anyway since I know that sign has no legal meaning in our state, but clearly, my friends and I are not welcome in any of your stores, so we won't be back. (Although if the sign came down, I would be back in a heartbeat, those nachos were tasty)

    Good luck, and thanks for reading.

    -----

    The really funny thing was that I found this news article from last year while researching their firearms policy online.

    Restaurant Manager Shoots at Would-Be Robber - WSB News on wsbradio.com

    Short version: While the corporate management does not allow patrons to legally carry firearms on their property, a legal firearm carrying manager of their restaurant foiled a robbery and possibly saved the life of at least one employee by shooting a robber.

    This happened just after the "no firearms" signs were posted, and many are speculating that the BG saw the signs and figured the place would be an easy target.

    Oh Arturo, prince of irony.
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

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    I don't know if there'll ever be a good answer to this delimma. Like religion and politics, one view is right and all others are wrong.

    In all fairness, you have to consider the business as the manager's house, and he has the right to set the conditions of patronage. Would you just let anyone enter your house carrying a firearm, whether open or concealed?

    You, on the other hand, have the right to patronize his business or not. If you think the product's not worth leaving your gun in the car, then by all means, go to another place. That's your option, your choice.

    As for me, I understand that I cannot carry my firearm anywhere, any time. That's a fact of life, and I can deal with it. If I don't want to go somewhere that I can't carry, I don't go. If I feel okay going there and not being armed, I go.

    If a gunstore says "no loaded guns allowed" I comply. Besides, every employee there is usually armed. I'm not too worried.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Member Array NavDoc's Avatar
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    My Vet has a sign on his door prohibiting firearms. Normally, I would not do business with anyone not welcoming me in such a matter. However, he is the BEST vet in town and I need to look at the health and welfare of my "Little Princess" cat at home vice a few minutes disarmed. So, I ablige to his wishes.

    Now, restaturants and other businesses...different story.
    Heavily Medicated For Your Protection

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    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Good for you!

    Craig
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    Senior Member Array AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I don't know if there'll ever be a good answer to this delimma.
    I totally respect the rights of the property owner. But I did want him to understand that he was losing business because of it.

    Did you see the news story at the bottom of my message? Do you see the hypocrisy?
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    In all fairness, you have to consider the business as the manager's house, and he has the right to set the conditions of patronage. Would you just let anyone enter your house carrying a firearm, whether open or concealed?
    With all respect, the business is not the manager's "house", nor is it anyone else's "house".

    It is a place of business, open to the general public. Any member of the public can enter at will to conduct lawful business.

    A home is not open to the public, and people cannot simply walk into someone else's home at will.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    NavDoc, I thought you were talking about OldVet's house at first.
    Semper Fi

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    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    I totally respect the rights of the property owner. But I did want him to understand that he was losing business because of it.

    Did you see the news story at the bottom of my message? Do you see the hypocrisy?
    Most business owners do it to protect themselves from legal liability should some other customer decide to sue the business for any injuries that might occur. In today's environment, people will sue at the drop of a hat. They know they can't get damages from a BG, but they will sue the owner of the business. Its the same with many security agencies who don't allow their guards to carry. It's all about liability these days, and no one wants to be held liable.

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    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    ^^^^ This I understand. Some of the laws that are recently being proposed certainly make sense. That if a buisness or lacation requires person to be disarmed, that buisness is then liable for their safety. I have always thought, that if I were disarmed and harmed in one of these places, that I would sue them. I believe that it is understood that if a place of buisness asks you to disarm, then they are liable for my safety. I would certainly sue, and most likely lose.
    Happily, I ignore ALL signage excepting those places specifically named in law.

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    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    +1 on the letter.

    I think it would be unfair to not write them the letter. I think giving them a fair 'heads-up' is a good thing for them.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    It's easier than that:

    "No shoes, no shirt - no service"

    "No guns - no customer"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    With all respect, the business is not the manager's "house", nor is it anyone else's "house".

    It is a place of business, open to the general public. Any member of the public can enter at will to conduct lawful business.

    A home is not open to the public, and people cannot simply walk into someone else's home at will.

    Matt
    And the owner, who has the same rights as you, can establish whether or not he wishes to allow weapons in his business. I'm sure he's aware that some may not patronize based on that, but it's his decision--respect it and shop elsewhere if you so choose.

    And he, or his representative (the manager or staff) can tell you to leave. That's also his right.

    What would you expect anyone to respect your rights when you won't respect theirs?
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Member Array Passin' Through's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LM2024 View Post
    Most business owners do it to protect themselves from legal liability should some other customer decide to sue the business for any injuries that might occur. In today's environment, people will sue at the drop of a hat. They know they can't get damages from a BG, but they will sue the owner of the business. Its the same with many security agencies who don't allow their guards to carry. It's all about liability these days, and no one wants to be held liable.
    If they are robbed and someone is injured or killed, because of their policy they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit instead of protecting themselves from one. JMHO
    For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….

    ad utrumque paratus

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    And the owner, who has the same rights as you, can establish whether or not he wishes to allow weapons in his business. I'm sure he's aware that some may not patronize based on that, but it's his decision--respect it and shop elsewhere if you so choose.
    The state may or may not have granted the business owner that right by giving legal force to a "no guns" sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    And he, or his representative (the manager or staff) can tell you to leave. That's also his right.

    What would you expect anyone to respect your rights when you won't respect theirs?
    The legislature, at least where I live, has declined to exclude lawfully armed citizens from posted businesses. Ergo, I have the legal right to enter the business whether I am carrying a gun or not.

    If the business owner or his / her agent asks me to leave, I must do so.

    However, the "right" you are asserting - the right to exclude me by posting a sign saying "no firearms" - does not exist in Florida. Therefore, I am not failing to respect it.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    Member Array Blownsvt's Avatar
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    To the Original poster...

    You might find that they have intentionally hung a sign that they kinow has no legal implications in your state. In Mn the signs that are used must be very speciffic and made and displayed a certain way to be legal. Business owners know this and intentionally post a non legal sign just to shut the antis up knowing full well that those of us that carry know the rules/laws about the signs and will carry in their businesses anyway. I wonder if that is not the case in this scenario since you mentioned one of the managers had a gun to thwart that robbery attempt. Just food for thought. It will be interesting to see what kind of reply you get if any.

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