TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED - Page 12

TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED

This is a discussion on TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by razor02097 in an unsafe manner = in his hand As prescribed by law. in an unsafe location = outside a holster Again, ...

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  1. #166
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    re: Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    in an unsafe manner = in his hand
    As prescribed by law.

    in an unsafe location = outside a holster
    Again, as prescribed by law

    in an unsafe condition = ??old revolver??
    Doesn't mean it wasn't in good working condition. We seem to know nothing about whether it was loaded, cocked and loaded, or merely displayed as required by law.

    What some of you are saying is that if the law says you have to do something, and you do it, it is perfectly ok for the law to turn around and then accuse you of doing wrong by obeying the law. That is a ridiculous position to take.

    It is like taking a legal tax deduction and then being accused of being a tax cheating.


    As for the home builder analogy it makes absolutely no sense...
    It was an attempt to show that it is ridiculous to say someone who obeys the law has committed a wrong. The specifics of bldg code are irrelevant. That was an analogy to illustrate a point. No need to debate bldg code specifics.

    Look, I don't know the guy and couldn't care about him one way or the other. What I do care something about is the notion that obeying the law should not get someone into trouble or get them ridiculed.

    What people are responding to here is the concern, "what will the anti-s think of us because of what this fellow did."

    That is not something we have control over and we already know what they think of us regardless of what one guy did---which was legal.

    If I understood the town's response correctly, it was to pass a law (or did they merely propose to pass a law?) in violation of the state's preemption statute. Tell me, who should be hanging their head in shame? The mayor and the city attorney, I think. They are the ones who are openly and deliberately breaking the law and being defiant of the authority of the State of TN.


  2. #167
    Member Array 2ndAmend's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This about sums up the entire thread!!

  3. #168
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    A lot of people have defended his painting the tip of his Draco (AK-47 variant) pistol orange by saying it's not illegal. But is it responsible? What if a child found it? You don't think they'd mistake it for a realistic toy? Especially considering the orange tip?

    Also, from now on, any time a police officer shoots a child with a toy gun in his hand, he can point to this nut and say, "Well, that guy had a REAL gun with an orange tip. How did I know the kid didn't have the same?"

    I understand his logic (I guess) of carrying the old pistol down the street in his hand, but did it have to be loaded? Would it have made a legal difference? He wasn't carrying it for self defense, but to challenge the law, so did it make a difference? He should have known they would have at least temporary confiscated it, at least while they talked to him. I wouldn't assume LEO's are familiar with old style pistols. In his video, he even expresses concern because it's loaded and that he wasn't sure if the officer knew what he was doing. He could have made his point with an unloaded pistol, and reduced the risks.

    Just my opinion.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    They are the ones who are openly and deliberately breaking the law and being defiant of the authority of the State of TN.
    Not entirely...

    As it stands, the guy was not CHARGED with breaking a law. The current TN law states something along the lines of anything pre 1986? is OK. So there's this law on the books that meets the criteria for them to be able to limit the carrying of weapons. They are not passing a new law, but amending the old law to reflect their desired change(s), whatever they may be. According to the draft that was posted earlier the way it reads is that guns would still be prohibited as there was no mention of one being exonerated by having a TN carry permit. So it looks like they would still be operating within the scope of TN law and still not be allowing guns...

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Doesn't mean it wasn't in good working condition. We seem to know nothing about whether it was loaded, cocked and loaded, or merely displayed as required by law.
    In the video posted by the guy it was loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What some of you are saying is that if the law says you have to do something, and you do it, it is perfectly ok for the law to turn around and then accuse you of doing wrong by obeying the law. That is a ridiculous position to take.
    He wasn't accused of anything. Please watch the videos. The LEO told him he could be sued by people that felt threatened up to 1 year after he performed his circus routine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is like taking a legal tax deduction and then being accused of being a tax cheating.
    Not the same. With tax laws it is what it is. You can either take a deduction or you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If I understood the town's response correctly, it was to pass a law (or did they merely propose to pass a law?) in violation of the state's preemption statute. Tell me, who should be hanging their head in shame? The mayor and the city attorney, I think. They are the ones who are openly and deliberately breaking the law and being defiant of the authority of the State of TN.
    They never broke the law or charged the man. The mayor is holding his head up high and pushing for a law to prevent others from trying a stunt this guy did. This also may adversely start an adverse movement for the open carry laws of TN. This man wanted attention... he got it. If he wanted laws changed he got it. Maybe not the way he wanted.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  6. #171
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Look at all the people who champion responsible gun ownership suddenly getting defensive over this guy...

  7. #172
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    Haven't read 9 pages of this thread - but good posts Hopy
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    A lot of people have defended his painting the tip of his Draco (AK-47 variant) pistol orange by saying it's not illegal. But is it responsible? What if a child found it? You don't think they'd mistake it for a realistic toy? Especially considering the orange tip?

    Also, from now on, any time a police officer shoots a child with a toy gun in his hand, he can point to this nut and say, "Well, that guy had a REAL gun with an orange tip. How did I know the kid didn't have the same?"
    Irregardless of this guy, to assume a gun with an orange tip isn't real is already a really stupid idea. I can't really believe that anyone thinks a splash of orange paint can make a bit of difference. The orange tip on toy guns is just another one of the asinine laws that makes people feel good.

  9. #174
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    The best way to have a law amended is to follow the obviously 100 or so year old outdated law to the letter and sit back and wait for the folks around you to get jacked up and demand an amendment. Case in point.

    Why carry a weapon as he did? For attention. Does it help the OC laws for any state? No way, if anything it hurt um big time. There is no reason for this dudes actions. It's not a war zone out there, all he did was make himself and most all OC folks look like quacks in the eyes of the folks that for what ever reason just don't get the CC thing.

    What's the reason for such an act? How does that help our 2nd amendment cause? Cause it's legal we should do it until it causes so much anguish that the powers that be put a stop to it at the behest of their constituency. Where's the bright more there.

    It's our right to open carry...Pleeeze. Sure you have the right to OC, but OC a 50 cal is gonna draw unwanted attention and seem fanatical to the folks around you and for what cause, cause you can. You have the right to pee in the woods too, but let someone who gets offended by it see ya and see what happens.

    Anyone who would think that this guy was right in his approach is part of the problem. If a law has been passed that directly pertains to our society and can be easily applicable to our current timeline, the yes we should be able to effectively exercise that right to the fullest. If that law is clearly outdated and has no real significance or place, then it should be stricken and avoided. It's called the world we live in and like it or not, you gotta deal with it on terms that can make sense to the average person; not with some obscure law written way back when for what ever reason.

    If you saw some dude walking around in a parka in the middle of summer 90+ degrees, wouldn't ya think the guy to be a little off, or at least weird, or at least up to something? Where's the difference between some dude like that and some dude loaded like it's bagdad and he's gathering intel? Just goofy; and I think the cat got what he deserved. Anytime you can give the gun control law makers an opportunity to rewrite a law regarding guns, you may just end up with more gun control than you either wanted or like. In my 40 years I've found and believe that, its best to leave sleeping dogs alone.

    Like it or not; in this day and age the powers that be are gonna be watching goofballs like this more and more; if they make large waves as apposed to smaller less offensive ones, they'll bring down the hammer of change faster and harder and we will lose the battle for our rights to CC. Rant off!

    GBK
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #175
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    As the story continues.......tune in tomorrow for another episode of "The Nut Who Lost His Permit". GEEZ this is just like a soap opera. Don't forget tune in tomorrow for the latest news.
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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    The best way to have a law amended is to follow the obviously 100 or so year old outdated law to the letter and sit back and wait for the folks around you to get jacked up and demand an amendment. Case in point.
    Or he could go to a town council meeting, make his point in a polite, on point statement, then respectfully ask the town to join the 21st century...

    But it is more fun to run around with a gun...

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Or he could go to a town council meeting, make his point in a polite, on point statement, then respectfully ask the town to join the 21st century...

    But it is more fun to run around with a gun...
    I agree going to the council would definately be the best first move.

    gottabkiddin, the idea that we should only do what is socially acceptable is bogus. The whole idea behind a lot of the open carry stuff going on is to make it socially acceptable again to be seen with a gun, but you can bet the first ones to do it are doing something abnormal.

    Don't be so quick to write off a law just because it's old, the argument your using on that law, sounds awfully similar to the same one used about how the second amendment is outdated and we need to get in line with modern society, and I'm reasonably certain you don't believe that.

  13. #178
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar270 View Post
    I agree going to the council would definately be the best first move.

    gottabkiddin, the idea that we should only do what is socially acceptable is bogus. The whole idea behind a lot of the open carry stuff going on is to make it socially acceptable again to be seen with a gun, but you can bet the first ones to do it are doing something abnormal.

    Don't be so quick to write off a law just because it's old, the argument your using on that law, sounds awfully similar to the same one used about how the second amendment is outdated and we need to get in line with modern society, and I'm reasonably certain you don't believe that.
    So to change people's minds about carrying loaded rifles in public is to sling one on your shoulder and walk down the street right?....


    Wake up people... this kind of thinking is what is giving the anti gun movement so much power. By performing actions like the person described in this thread has done he may have very well sparked the proposed gun ban.

    By forcefully exerting your rights you may make others feel you are oppressing theirs (even though you may not be).

    In this day in age education and awareness is the best way to gain support for carrying. Teach em young, teach em well. You have to make the meal before you can eat it.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #179
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar270 View Post
    I agree going to the council would definately be the best first move.

    gottabkiddin, the idea that we should only do what is socially acceptable is bogus. The whole idea behind a lot of the open carry stuff going on is to make it socially acceptable again to be seen with a gun, but you can bet the first ones to do it are doing something abnormal.

    Don't be so quick to write off a law just because it's old, the argument your using on that law, sounds awfully similar to the same one used about how the second amendment is outdated and we need to get in line with modern society, and I'm reasonably certain you don't believe that.
    That's never gonna happen...... The mainstream society will never fully accept it again period. Most of todays society believes that it's and outdated and dangerous practice, ever how wrong they are about it, that's the way it is.

    I too believe we should be able to carry our pistols for SD, but unfortunately it's the law makers that need to be convinced and not your fellow CCrs. As I stated in my earlier post; if the law is obviously outdated and cannot clearly pertain to todays society, it should be amended or removed to avoid nut jobs from pressing a bad hand intentionally and mucking up our courts and legislation with guff.

    Just to clairify; I'm not saying nor condoning the action as you suggested. I'm speaking to a law that states what this dude was doing with the older revolver in his hand. I mean come on man. If you looked out your window and saw this dude walking down the street with the gun in his hand, wouldn't that send a flag up? Do you want some dude unknown to you just for the hell of it to be able to do stuff like that? I don't know the dude from adam and I have no idea what his problem might be, but out in the country sure do what cha want, but in town, put on the cap that holds the brain power in and act like ya got some sense. What's wrong with in a holster on you person? Why is it so important that this law be left on the books just cause someone put it there years ago when the town had a population of 200 or so.

    The US constitution is in no way the same thing as the state mandated and regulated laws governing concealed or open carry. I get your drift, but respectfully; two different animals altogether. One is for the US the others are defined to individual states and unions. The Constitution should never come into the equation. Just my opinion. Not trying to change anyones mind here, just don't believe in the way some folks like to stir the pot.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  15. #180
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    As mentioned earlier, just because I can do something doesn't mean I should. Common sense sure goes along way too. Remember this, if you walk like a duck and talk like a duck, you might not be a duck...........but don't get your feathers ruffled if people keep mistaking you for a duck.


    Let's take this situation and recontext it. You're out in a public park with your kids/grandkids/family/etc. A group of men, all carrying same said pistol, but have matching bandanas, baggy pants, tattoos on their face and neck come strolling through the park. Be honest, is your first thought, "Huh, good to see some guys exercising their open carry right, as well as freedom of expression. I don't agree with their appearance, but I respect their right to do so........"? Of course not. I've been around this forum, I can hear the terms "thug", "gangbanger" and "scum" flying all over the place now.

    Truth be told, you don't know that. They may very well be a group of guys, fond of ink and matching clothing styles who exercise their gun rights. You go off the "appearance" of things. Look at it another way. Same story different verse. A guy, dressed in a hoodie, with same said gun comes walking by you in your car in Wal-Mart parking lot. You've got several people you know that are shopping inside. I know what you're thinking, "Good to see a fellow 2nd amendment advocate out and about. Plus, you gotta appreciate the fashion sense of hoodie.", right? You're comfortable knowing this guy is headed into where people you care about are? But he's legal.........

    The man may have been legal, but that doesn't make it right either. On a lighter note, I've got a good size gut now. It's legal for me to sit out in my yard without a shirt, but I've found it prudent to not do so. :)
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