TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED - Page 9

TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED

This is a discussion on TN Man's Permit Revoked: 1st Fall Out @ Post 110-MERGED within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not only does this legislation create a victim zone inside Belle Meade by disarming law-abiding citizens, it is also a clear violation of Tennessee’s preemption ...

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  1. #121
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Not only does this legislation create a victim zone inside Belle Meade by disarming law-abiding citizens, it is also a clear violation of Tennessee’s preemption statutes.
    Seattle tried this and got their pee-pee spanked.By all means Belle Meade pass the law.

    Maybe some of us haven't caught on that politicians are starting to realize that gun control is the third rail but the politicians are getting it.


  2. #122
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Me too

  3. #123
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I still want someone to convince Lenny that it's against the law to walk down the middle of the street, at night wearing a white robe ...in the projects.


    let nature take it's course
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  4. #124
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Seattle tried this and got their pee-pee spanked.By all means Belle Meade pass the law.

    Maybe some of us haven't caught on that politicians are starting to realize that gun control is the third rail but the politicians are getting it.

    Yes and no. The old mayor presumptuously just went and created the new city 'laws.' And they were struck down because they are in conflict with the state consitution.

    The new mayor (failing on many levels so far) has taken the knee-jerk step of now saying he wants to change the state constitution re: gun laws. (And he has alot bigger problems he should be dealing with).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I, for one, think it's a wonderful wake up call for gun people to learn that the body of law involving firearms does not begin and end with The Bill of Rights to the Federal Constitution, amendment #2.

    Regardless of those who say "What part of shall not be infringed do you not get" their are many more considerations at issue than your simplistic interpretation of the constitution.

    The sooner people wake up and start being able to inteligently address these issues (and that means reading things outside of other people's posts that you agree with on firearm related internet sites...) the better.

    Your thoughts and feelings on the state of law in the USA are insignificant compared to the realities of the law.

    I assure you, those who would disarm you are very aware of the law, its interpretations and implications, because while you were talking about how things SHOULD BE, they were implimenting how things ARE.

    Think carefully next time you retreat to your retorical soap box and start talking about what should be to the dismissal of what is.

    You may be doing a favor for people you'd rather you didn't help.
    Yeah!!! What he just said!!

  6. #126
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J400Cali View Post
    Yeah!!! What he just said!!
    Don't agree with me.

    I'm clearly wrong.

    I don't understand "Shall not be infringed." and therefore I am anti-gun.

  7. #127
    JD
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    Everyone should tread lightly on this topic, I'm still wading through the other one ( had to sort out some computer problems), keep it civil and on topic.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    I did not intend to get a fight going, I just wanted to show that everthing we do as gun owners can reflect on ALL gun owners. I make many trips to the Nashville area from Memphis on a monthly basis, and now I might suffer because of what someone else did......

    All I saying is PLEASE think. Just because you can, does not mean you should.....

    They make a Speedo in my size, but you would not want to see me wear one.........
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  9. #129
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    I don't know all the details of this guy, but from the Canadian experience where we have been doing nothing but lose more and more of what our government call's privileges, going along, and playing nice so as not to lose more has not been an effective method.

    We are starting to make ground back, with hopes of having our long gun registration repealed, but it's only through being more out there, and challenging the community that we are gaining. We still have many up here who hide that they own firearms, and sneak between the house and the range so as not to upset people, then wonder why their friends and coworkers can support a party that wants to take away their guns, while the coworkers have no idea that the law would effect someone they know.

    I'm not saying there may not be set backs by being out there and visible, but hiding in order to keep what you have does not work in any way.

  10. #130
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    re: MitchellCT

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I hope the NRA tells people that if they want to solve this issue, they can foot the bill themselves.

    The NRA has better things to do than spend money cleaning up this guy's mess.
    Yes, like work hard to preserve state preemption. By way of a
    "ferinstance," assist with challenges to that city's new code.

    Really, it is a matter of keeping an eye on the ball or the goal. The guy who precipitated all of this just brought the craziness to the forefront. If the city wishes to intentionally violate an existing TN pre-emption law, that action by the city needs to be challenged.

    (I have no problem with them (the city) changing their antiquated law about military pistols and open carry. I agree such devices should be concealed unless there is an open carry law or supporting case law in that state. I do have a problem with what appears to be arbitrary license revocation (which perhaps is tactical) and with a city regulation in conflict with the state's statutes.)

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar270 View Post
    I don't know all the details of this guy, but from the Canadian experience where we have been doing nothing but lose more and more of what our government call's privileges, going along, and playing nice so as not to lose more has not been an effective method.

    I'm not saying there may not be set backs by being out there and visible, but hiding in order to keep what you have does not work in any way.
    Who is hiding?

    The NRA is the strongest and most well-funded civil rights organization in the world. Support for gun control in America is at its lowest levels in my lifetime. All but two states have concealed carry legislation, we have Heller in our favor, (McDonald soon too) and a slew of right-to-carry lawsuits in the works for DC, California, NYC, and other localities. Our current executive has ran so far away from his gun control record he might as well be in Nunavut by now.

    In other words: we've won. That doesn't mean we can take a break, but we don't need this 'in your face' attitude that Embody prefers (if he was smart, he'd realize this -- but since he's filing frivolous lawsuits left and right I assume he's in this solely for himself.) Giving the other side 'ammo' (so to speak) to think that gun owners are a bunch of people who like toting AKs around while wearing fatigues or walk down the street with replica army revolvers could flip things around so the climate is not so much in our favor.

    In the Belle Meade incident, he did something that was apparently perfectly legal -- but it appears that the law was so outdated that it was not even enforced anymore and nobody but him knew about it. He could have politely asked Belle Meade to revise the statute to align with state preemption, as the Mayor now wants to do, but Embody took the dumb option.

    Should there be any criminal penalties against him? No, he doesn't appear to have done anything illegal. Should there be administrative penalties? Honestly, this guy's attitude points to being seriously screwed up in the head, and I don't fault the state government for swiping his permit (unlike the 'disgruntled employee' in Oregon who was visited by the SWAT team, Embody actually seems to be a few rounds short of a full mag). Embody probably should not get his carry permit back without taking a mental health evaluation first.

  12. #132
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Exactly. If he indeed broke a law that results in revocation of the CCP, then charge him, prosecute, and let the chips fall where they may. In the absence of having objective criteria that are consistently enforced, a person might not like what the deciding entity doesn't agree with.


    SNIP............

    If you think these are far fetched hypothetical examples, remember that in this situation he was open carrying....and they took his concealed carry permit. That would still not prevent him from continuing to OC. One is not related to the other. Something to think about.
    Hold on now.......

    There is a process, and they are using it correctly. They sent him letter that his permit has been revoked. Informed him that he has a certian number of days if he wants to file for an appeal. Then the appeal hearing will determine if revolking his permit was justified. If he doesn't agree with the results of the appeal, then state law allows him to request a judge review the appeal, and if any problems are found, the judge can order his permit to be reinstated. That is the process that is set up in the state law. And, yes, his permit was revoked on the day he received the letter, and he has to do all of this to try to get it back, but he can get it back.

    Look up the procedures for revoking or suspending a permit. You can be innocent, and just be falsely accused of a felony, but once you have been arrested for that crime, your permit is gone, and you will not get it back until you have cleared your name.
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  13. #133
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    I think that if someone walks up to me and he is carrying an AK pistol in his hand I am going to be concerned, and Im not going to ask him if he's trying to make a statement on gun laws etc., Im going to think he's a nut case, especially if I'm with my family, that guy is using very little common sense.

  14. #134
    Member Array dylistn's Avatar
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    TN state law preempts all local laws. He could open or cc. Don't k now what they are talking about.

    I think this guy is full of it and likes the attention. Don't see any reason to revoke his permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    Apparently that community has a ban on carrying handguns...but it has an exemption for carrying one of 2 specific black powder revolvers as long as they are carried "in hand"...

    For those of you who support this revocation, I sincerely hope that, at some point, some official decides they do not approve of what you carry or how you carry it.

  15. #135
    Member Array wildcatCWP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dylistn View Post
    TN state law preempts all local laws. He could open or cc. Don't k now what they are talking about.

    I think this guy is full of it and likes the attention. Don't see any reason to revoke his permit.
    As far as I understand it, TN preemption doesn't have an effect on laws that were enacted prior to 1986 -- Belle Meade's old army/navy law (probably enacted in 1866) fell under that exemption. The Mayor of Belle Meade, Gray Thornburg, said the law should have been taken off the books years ago, but nobody seemed to notice or care -- except Embody.

    Tennessee State Code 39-17-1314:

    (a) Except as provided in 39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combination thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.

    So, while the army/navy law was legal in Belle Meade, the local government probably forgot about it. Since I've never heard of anybody arrested for carrying a concealed weapon in Belle Meade in violation of local statute, I assume that they weren't enforcing the law and that Embody just wanted to stir up trouble for trouble's sake. He could have done the right thing by going to the city council/mayor and politely pointing out the law on the books, teaching them the background to the law (to keep blacks disarmed) and maybe win over a few converts by showing gun owners to be rational, reasonable people who want less government interference with the right to self-defense.

    Mais, non.

    In the meantime, the city will realign their ordinance to be in line with preemption:
    http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...-meade-gun-ban

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