Flying with Firearm - bag opened and ammo missing!
This is a discussion on Flying with Firearm - bag opened and ammo missing! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guns and more
If anything improper was removed for any reason the TSA MUST include a form of what they took and ...
March 20th, 2010 09:31 AM
It's not a matter of valuables; it's an issue of my not being able to secure my belongings (whether valuable or not!) from thief. I no longer pack anything of value for that very reason. TSA cuts the locks and leaves the back unsecured from the easiest thief.
Originally Posted by Guns and more
Call it "unreasonable search and seizure." I hope they enjoyed my peanut butter for lunch. Maybe it gave them an allergic reation.
Retired USAF E-8. Official forum curmudgeon. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
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March 20th, 2010 11:15 AM
Are you allowed fly with ammo in your luggage? Without looking into it, I was always under the impression that ammo cannot go on the airplane because it is explosive. The people I have known that fly with their guns purchase ammo at their destination.
I'm assuming you looked into it before going through this process but just want to raise the question.
Edit: Never mind, I looked into it, as I should have before I posted. getting lazy :|
"When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
March 20th, 2010 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by OldVet
I have seen TSA cut TSA approved locks off. I have seen lock tabs broken off expensive pelican cases.
If you lock your bag, it will be broken. "We'll teach this guy a lesson."
Think about it. Locking luggage is like hanging a sign on it, "Something valuable inside."
By the time you retrieve your suitcase, you have no idea who opened it. And very little recourse. (Good luck filing a complaint with the TSA)
Baggage handlers really don't have time to go through bags anymore. Plus it looks suspicious for them to open a suitcase. But a TSA inspector, well he's expected to be looking through bags, I'm just sayin'
March 20th, 2010 02:46 PM
When you fly with a firearm, you are required to lock the bag. And the whole point of the prescreening and extra checks is so that no unauthorized person will have access to the firearm once it is through security. They are not allowed to unlock the bags, and I believe breaking the locks of is some sort of violation. Bags with broken locks are not allow to fly. Definitly file a report with the authorities.
Here is what the TSA website says:
You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
March 20th, 2010 04:20 PM
Indeed. I was responding to the gentleman who had his peanut butter stolen.
When you fly with a firearm, you are required to lock the bag.
I travel every week and NEVER lock my bags.
I'm sad to say, the op's loss happened in my home airport, the best in the country for travelers, IMO.
I'll assume the firearm was not stolen since he didn't mention it, and since the bag didn't get on his flight, that means it sat around creating opportunity to be stolen. It was either detained intentionally, but why not steal everything? Or by mistake, in either case it fell into the wrong hands. Since the TSA sent it on it's way, I'd lean towards baggage handlers as the suspects. Maybe they left the firearm fearing an investigation storm if it was gone. (and it could be identified.)
So they only took items they felt no one would catch.
Maybe this happens every day, we only heard of it because of this forum.
I have to say, after 2 million miles of flying through Tampa, all I've lost is a bottle of vodka.
March 20th, 2010 05:12 PM
Is a firearm in a "locked hard case" that any average person would look at and think, hey, I'll bet a gun is in that case? If so, is it feasible any airline ground crew employee working the flight line could have access to said container? Or, when entry is deemed to be justified, does TSA record/video tape it? Nonetheless, something doesn't seem "legal" regarding a person looking for such a container, grabbing bolt cutters, and opening it up. I would think you deserve an explanation from TSA supervision and Southwest why it was compromised. If it happened once, it will happen again. Please keep us updated.
May we never forget those in uniform who protect us night and day in lands far away. And those in all wars who paid the supreme sacrifice in defense of our country. May God Bless our Troops and First Responders.
March 20th, 2010 06:05 PM
May I make a suggestion?
Army surplus, $20. The Discus lock & heavy duty hasp cost about twice that! Far cheaper than a Pelican case.
You do get weird looks walking into the airport with it, especially since the box weighs about 20#.
Never had anything stolen from it! Also makes a great lockbox for your laptop if you have to leave it in the hotel room.
My last flight (earlier this week) had two people mistakenly thinking a 20# steel box with a Discus lock was inadequate for securing a checked firearm. They were convinced (TSA agent in Houston and a United checkin agent in WY) that the firearm had to be locked in a small box, inside the big box. I had to wait an extra 10-15 minutes for a TSA supervisor in Houston to correct the first person. In WY, we schlepped my 45# box over to TSA, who quickly educated the anxious United lady that everything was fine.
Last edited by rhenriksen; March 20th, 2010 at 06:06 PM.
Reason: corrected image URL
March 27th, 2010 11:49 AM
TSA people VARY a LOT. = i frequently fly all over the USA & some of my experiences are as follows:
1. a airline counter agent at BWI insisted that i open my gun-box for her & put it ON the counter, opened. then she knocked it off in the floor, scattering pistol, magazines, ammo all over the place. a TSA agent & AP police were called & they "blessed out" the airline lady!
2. an TSA agent in Atlanta LOUDLY shouted "THIS GUY HAS A GUN", which brought the airport police RUNNING.-scared the H out of everyone!- the TSA guy got suspended W/O pay for 30 days.
3. somewhere between BWI & SAT, somebody helped themselves to my RVN-era Ralph Bone knife, 2 boxes of 9mm JHP & my new electric razor. = BOTH the TSA & Delta Airlines DISCLAIMED responsibilty!
4. a TSA employee at Dulles International AP required me to disassemble the Remington mod66,22,semi-auto AND my Winchester Model 42 (which were IN a locked, hardsided guncase) OR have them confiscated.
5. people who are checking guns at SAT have a "enclosed private area" where your weapons are checked by a TSA employee - they are REALLY NICE there to to CCW folks.
fwiw, my advice is to ask to talk to a SUPERVISOR of TSA, if someone gives you a BAD TIME!
Last edited by texasnative46; March 27th, 2010 at 04:39 PM.
March 27th, 2010 03:34 PM
Peanut butter is very dense and is very difficult to distinguish on an X-ray from C4 in some cases. Don't fly with it. TSA goons probably love peanut butter as well.
March 27th, 2010 03:37 PM
I would have told him he better call a supervisor because otherwise he was going to have to confiscate them and then face legal action against himself and the TSA.
Originally Posted by texasnative46
March 27th, 2010 03:46 PM
Your property was stolen from your locked luggage while in their secured possession. The lock was cut, and you saw it that way when it came down the carousel. Practically speaking, there shouldn't be a question of liability.
Originally Posted by KSCarry
Of course, Southwest as a company isn't the thief. Whatever felon they've hired is. Might be an individual, or someone who is part of a larger thieving/fencing ring. Whatever, the person swiped your stuff in the hidden part of the airport. Might well be that videos caught the person doing the deed.
Police report?? You might have to push really hard, given the millions of people who experience loss during air travel, these days. It wasn't the firearm, so I'm sure the effort will seem a bit bored and "busy" (as in, they seem too busy with other things at the moment).
March 27th, 2010 04:02 PM
yeah TSA in Tampa appears to have done the same thing to my Daughter at Christmas - only they took an electronic picture frame and a a necklace (Christmas presents - they were not wrapped) the TSA inspection form was on and in the luggage) it also says 6-7 months to investigate...
March 27th, 2010 04:45 PM
inasmuch as i had about 40 minutes to make the only flight to SAT & i had reservations "on the other end" i did NOT have time to do anything but comply with his demand.- nearly didn't make the flight as it was!
furthermore, the TSA guy knew that & based on his anti-gun comments was just being an pain.
Last edited by Scott; March 28th, 2010 at 08:11 AM.
Reason: profanity workaround removed
March 27th, 2010 04:47 PM
Yes, file a police report asap!
"The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"
March 27th, 2010 04:55 PM
The police report is important to establish a 'paper trail'...it's a start.
Even if it doesn't solve yours, it may lead to the next theft.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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