Flying with Firearm - bag opened and ammo missing! - Page 4

Flying with Firearm - bag opened and ammo missing!

This is a discussion on Flying with Firearm - bag opened and ammo missing! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by texasnative46 to all: WARNING! - if you fly out of ANY of the WASHINGTON DC Metro airports, to include BWI, you MUST ...

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  1. #46
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnative46 View Post
    to all:

    WARNING! - if you fly out of ANY of the WASHINGTON DC Metro airports, to include BWI, you MUST use locks that TSA can open.
    (i don't fly out of Richmond, but i'm told that the same "local policy" is in effect there, too.)

    trust me, i fly into & out of Dulles, Ronald Reagan & BWI frequently & i had to go buy "TSA-approved locks" for my pistol case that goes INSIDE my "hardsided" luggage. - this means that TSA employees can OPEN your stuff & "help themselves to" whatever they want.
    (
    yours, TN46
    Weird.

    I fly out of Dulles or Reagan almost weekly and often take a handgun if it is legal at my destination. I use a COM handgun case, and my wife and I are the only ones with a key. I put a TSA lock on the bag itself, but ensure that if anyone is going to open my pistol case, I must be there. I only had one issue - in Detroit. When I asked for (and met with) the TSA supervisor and two Detroit cops, I showed my CHP, opened my case for them, we all had a hearty laugh, and they sent me on my merry way unmolested. The TSA supervisor offered to trade me straight up - his Glock for my Kimber Ultra CDP II. I politely declined.

    That was the only time I had an issue, and I was a n00b back then, and was dumb enough to listen to a ticket agent who told me to put the orange tag INSIDE my pistol case.

    Now I tape the orange tag to the outside of the pistol case (not the luggage) with the airline tape they have at the counter. No problem, and dozens of flights later.....

    MM


  2. #47
    Ex Member Array texasnative46's Avatar
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    MadMac,

    as i said, it depends on the people of TSA & how they feel about guns.- IF you happen to "run into" an ANTI-GUN/SELF-important/arrogant TSA supervisor, you COULD have "a problem". = the nitwit that made me disassemble my Model 42 skeet gun & 22LR semi-auto, which were locked in a hardside (and frankly rather expensive) case was "just being a pain." - i'm convinced that he KNEW that he was acting outside BOTH the law & common sense.

    yours, TN46

  3. #48
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnative46 View Post
    MadMac,

    as i said, it depends on the people of TSA & how they feel about guns.- IF you happen to "run into" an ANTI-GUN/SELF-important/arrogant TSA supervisor, you COULD have "a problem". = the nitwit that made me disassemble my Model 42 skeet gun & 22LR semi-auto, which were locked in a hardside (and frankly rather expensive) case was "just being a pain." - i'm convinced that he KNEW that he was acting outside BOTH the law & common sense.

    yours, TN46
    I have run into a few nitwit TSA goobers (all screeners), but asking to speak to a supervisor has ALWAYS resolved the problem.

    Once at RDU, the TSA goober asked to see the gun. I complied and opened the case WITH MY KEY, then the goober proceeded to paint me and his partner while fondling my Kimber. I told him to put the damn thing down and call someone who knew what to do. He was red-faced and I'm sure was annoyed with me, but after getting scolded by his boss in front of me for his wreckless behavior, it all ended well.

    The very few times I have had to show a supervisor my firearm, I also show my CHP and military ID. Works for me.

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I have run into a few nitwit TSA goobers (all screeners), but asking to speak to a supervisor has ALWAYS resolved the problem.

    Once at RDU, the TSA goober asked to see the gun. I complied and opened the case WITH MY KEY, then the goober proceeded to paint me and his partner while fondling my Kimber. I told him to put the damn thing down and call someone who knew what to do. He was red-faced and I'm sure was annoyed with me, but after getting scolded by his boss in front of me for his wreckless behavior, it all ended well.

    The very few times I have had to show a supervisor my firearm, I also show my CHP and military ID. Works for me.
    After reading this thread I have decided that I will fly when I grow a pair of wings, until then forget it.
    As far as some snot nosed TSA agent fondling my firearms, no way, my firearms are M-I-N-E, MINE,: you try to fondle them or any other part of me, the is going to be a problem, big problem
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  5. #50
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    After reading this thread I have decided that I will fly when I grow a pair of wings, until then forget it.
    As far as some snot nosed TSA agent fondling my firearms, no way, my firearms are M-I-N-E, MINE,: you try to fondle them or any other part of me, the is going to be a problem, big problem
    It's nice that you have the option. I need to fly frequently to put food on the table. I also find it difficult to visit places like Europe, Asia, Australia, and South America without air transportation.

    I get a bit miffed by snarky replies like, "...that's why I refuse to fly anymore..."

    Do you refuse to drive your car anymore if some overzealous LEO slaps you with a ticket you feel was unjustified? Do you refuse to drive anymore because your kids whine, "Are we there yet?" the entire way to grandma's house? Do you refuse to drive you car anymore after you get a flat tire? I doubt it.

    Most likely the real reason someone "refuses to fly anymore" is one or more of the following:

    1. can't afford it
    2. rarely (if ever) flew to begin with
    3. never travels outside of their zip code in any case

    If you "refuse" to fly simply because of a minor issue with some low-level TSA twit, well, good on ya! It leaves more room on the plane for the rest of us.
    Last edited by MadMac; March 31st, 2010 at 03:11 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    One other point of info to consider-

    If your plane is re-routed or makes an unscheduled stop in a state where you are not legal to CCW, do not pick up your luggage. You can be arrested on the spot for felony possession!

    If you want to read one woman's horror story about being arrested in such a situation:

    NY Gun Laws at their best.. [Archive] - StopGunControl

    Even with a valid NYS permit don't try and fly in/out of JFK or LGA with a firearm as you will be arrested for not having a permit to posses in the city. We are allowed to travel through the city via car with a unloaded firearm locked away as per peaceable journey rules but that same courtesy is not extended to traveling out of the city via air - because technically we come back into possession with it (even though we law abiding citizens will not remove it from the lock box) when we arrive at the terminal.

    Now I haven't experienced this first had but there have been a couple of news reports and my NRA instructor also relayed the message during class. Basically don't fly out of the city if you want to also transport your firearm.

  7. #52
    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I promised to stop picking on people who wear tin foil hats.. so i gotta be quiet !!!


  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    i had to go buy "TSA-approved locks" for my pistol case that goes INSIDE my "hardsided" luggage. - this means that TSA employees can OPEN your stuff & "help themselves to" whatever they want.
    That is totally opposed to TSA guidelines.
    Never use TSA locks on firearms.
    TSA locks are for your clothes, and I have seen them broken off too.
    However, I don't doubt that what you say is true. Every airport seems to make up their own rules. I recommend printing the regulations from the TSA guidelines and "sticking to your guns", so to speak.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    During a long career in business I flew a great deal--airlines (and now TSA) have dealt me so many unbelievable disappointments that I don't even complain anymore...it's easier to put on a happy face, swallow the loss and move happily forward.

    Thank God the pilots have never let me down (pun intended)...
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  10. #55
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    The Young Letter

    fastk9dad said:

    Even with a valid NYS permit don't try and fly in/out of JFK or LGA with a firearm as you will be arrested for not having a permit to posses in the city. We are allowed to travel through the city via car with a unloaded firearm locked away as per peaceable journey rules but that same courtesy is not extended to traveling out of the city via air - because technically we come back into possession with it (even though we law abiding citizens will not remove it from the lock box) when we arrive at the terminal.

    Don Young, Congressman from Alaska, got the following letter from the Attorney General's office:

    http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf

    U. S. Department of Justice
    Office of Legislative Affairs
    Office of the Assistant Attorney General
    Washington, D.C. 20530
    February 18, 2005


    The Honorable Don Young
    U.S. House of Representatives
    Washington, DC 20515


    Dear Congressman Young:

    Thank you for your letter, dated June 18, 2003, to Admiral James M. Loy, then- Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), concerning the applicability of 18 U.S.C. section 926A to persons at airports in New York State who are taking flights to destinations outside of New York. Because section 926A is a provision of the Gun Control Act (GCA), which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) enforces, TSA forwarded your letter to the Department of Justice for response. We apologize for the delay in responding.

    In your letter you explained that local police officers in New York have threatened several individuals at John F. Kennedy International Airport and Albany International Airport with arrest for firearms possession based on strict State laws, and that in at least one case the firearms were confiscated. You explained that: (1) the people carrying the firearms were not prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal law, (2) the people had apparently traveled directly, without any interruption in the transportation, to the airports from other States where they legally could possess firearms, (3) their firearms and ammunition were secured in accordance with all applicable regulations for airline travel, and (4) they were flying to other States or countries where they could legally possess firearms.

    You then asked if TSA agrees that section 926A enables these travelers to possess the firearms legally in the New York airports and if so, if TSA would inform local police and prosecutors about this provision of the GCA. We appreciate your bringing this issue to our attention. The Department of Justice agrees that the provisions of section 926A apply to the situation set forth above assuming: (1) the person is traveling from somewhere he lawfully may possess and carry a firearm; (2) en route to the airport the firearm is unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment of his car; (3) the person transports the firearm directly from his vehicle to the airline check-in desk without any interuption in the transportation; and (4) while carrying the firearm to the check-in desk it is unloaded and in a locked container. This interpretation reflects the apparent congressional intent in enacting this provision, while allowing State and local law enforcement to continue to enforce their firearms laws aggressively to promote public safety. We will inform the applicable law enforcement authorities of our interpretation of section 926A.

    We trust this information responds to your inquiry. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact this office.

    Sincerely,





    William E. Moschella
    Assistant Attorney General


    Prior to that date, the Port Authority Police were playing the game you describe. They can't do it any more...
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    It's nice that you have the option. I need to fly frequently to put food on the table. I also find it difficult to visit places like Europe, Asia, Australia, and South America without air transportation.

    I get a bit miffed by snarky replies like, "...that's why I refuse to fly anymore..."

    Do you refuse to drive your car anymore if some overzealous LEO slaps you with a ticket you feel was unjustified? Do you refuse to drive anymore because your kids whine, "Are we there yet?" the entire way to grandma's house? Do you refuse to drive you car anymore after you get a flat tire? I doubt it.

    Most likely the real reason someone "refuses to fly anymore" is one or more of the following:

    1. can't afford it
    2. rarely (if ever) flew to begin with
    3. never travels outside of their zip code in any case

    If you "refuse" to fly simply because of a minor issue with some low-level TSA twit, well, good on ya! It leaves more room on the plane for the rest of us.
    I'm sorry that you are miffed by my snarky reply.
    I've flown twice in my lifetime, one pleasure trip, one business.
    I work from home and my business does not require travel beyond my local area.
    For pleasure travel my boat usually goes with me, and the hassles of getting it on a plane are just not worth it
    Stretch out a bit on your next flight, I won't be in your way.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD View Post

    Prior to that date, the Port Authority Police were playing the game you describe. They can't do it any more...
    Queens didn't get the memo. From Feb 2010...


    Queens
    Three out-of-towners found out the hard way not to fly with their firearms, cops said yesterday.
    The men all attempted to declare their weapons during baggage check-in at La Guardia Airport between Feb. 3 and Feb. 7, cops said.
    Ticket agents called police to see if the weapons had been registered in New York state, which they had not been, sources said.
    Arrested were Norman Dott, 67, of Lawton, Okla., Frank Rivera, 27, of Dallas, and Kamal Bradai, 34, of Tampa.
    All were charged with criminal possession of a weapon, a spokeswoman for DA Richard Brown said.


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/n...#ixzz0jqv9AMkF

    There is also an attorney that specializes representing people charged with the above:
    Queens New York Firearm Arrests Attorney | NY Airport Criminal Defense Lawyer NYC

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Queens
    Three out-of-towners found out the hard way not to fly with their firearms, cops said yesterday.
    The men all attempted to declare their weapons during baggage check-in at La Guardia Airport between Feb. 3 and Feb. 7, cops said.
    Ticket agents called police to see if the weapons had been registered in New York state, which they had not been, sources said.
    Arrested were Norman Dott, 67, of Lawton, Okla., Frank Rivera, 27, of Dallas, and Kamal Bradai, 34, of Tampa.
    All were charged with criminal possession of a weapon, a spokeswoman for DA Richard Brown said.
    This is going far afield from the OP.
    The OP had legally checked his firearm, and it was accepted by the TSA.
    In NY, these guys were arrested for bringing guns into NY (and attempting to check them.)
    By now, anyone who can read should know: DO NOT BRING GUNS INTO NY......PERIOD.
    I'm sure the NY cops are laughing at how they showed those hicks. (and admiring their new guns)
    The TSA wasn't involved.

  14. #59

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    This is going far afield from the OP.
    The OP had legally checked his firearm, and it was accepted by the TSA.
    In NY, these guys were arrested for bringing guns into NY (and attempting to check them.)
    By now, anyone who can read should know: DO NOT BRING GUNS INTO NY......PERIOD.
    I'm sure the NY cops are laughing at how they showed those hicks. (and admiring their new guns)
    The TSA wasn't involved.
    Understood, it was just a rebuttal to the letter from the AG that said that doing what these fellows did (NYS permit holders or not) is a lawful activity and that the local authorities had been notified as such and yet the practice still continues. As I understand it from other reading is it's not really the cops decision but the DA that is enforcing his interpretation of the law.

    Anyway, don't mean to derail the thread.

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