Ky. carry Question

Ky. carry Question

This is a discussion on Ky. carry Question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All hospitals and some clinics in the Commonwealth of Kentucky are posted with legal no carry signs at entrances to buildings. Fine, it's the law. ...

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Thread: Ky. carry Question

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Ky. carry Question

    All hospitals and some clinics in the Commonwealth of Kentucky are posted with legal no carry signs at entrances to buildings. Fine, it's the law. What I can't seem to find out, does this apply to the grounds of these places? Am I in violation if I'm CCWing when I drop off or pick somebody up without going inside?


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I don't find anything in Ky. law that specifically names Hospitals and such. So treat them just like you would any other place with a sign. If you leave it in the car, then do that, if you are dropping a person off,just do it. If you ignore the sign, and are found out, guess you'd have to leave, or be a trespasser.

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    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    I agree with the above post.
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

    The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

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    Member Array CenterOfMass's Avatar
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    You may be able to get more clarity from a link on the front page here or at this link:

    Handgunlaw.us

    Good Luck!
    EDC - S&W M&P .45

    "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take." Thomas Jefferson

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    I don't find anything in Ky. law that specifically names Hospitals and such. So treat them just like you would any other place with a sign. If you leave it in the car, then do that, if you are dropping a person off,just do it. If you ignore the sign, and are found out, guess you'd have to leave, or be a trespasser.
    That is true, but be aware that hospitals on college campuses or directly associated with colleges are considered school property.

    Units of state and local governments and postsecondary education facilities (colleges, universities, technical schools and community colleges) have the authority to limit the carrying of concealed weapons on property owned or controlled by them (KRS 237.115).
    Also, KRS 527.070 prohibits unlawful possession (whether carried openly or concealed) of a weapon on school property, and conviction of such is a felony.

    If you carry a deadly weapon (open or concealed) in the University of Kentucky Hospital, or U of L Hospital, forget about trespassing, because you are commiting a felony.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

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    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    All hospitals and some clinics in the Commonwealth of Kentucky are posted with legal no carry signs at entrances to buildings. Fine, it's the law. What I can't seem to find out, does this apply to the grounds of these places? Am I in violation if I'm CCWing when I drop off or pick somebody up without going inside?
    Toyed with the exact same question. You would have a problem at UK medical center, it's on UK's campus area. Central Baptist however has several entrances. The one I went through 2 months ago, and again yesterday, says nothing but No Smoking. then as I was leaving, through a different door, there was the No Guns sign.

    I decided to look closely but found no, No Firearms, sign anywhere outside on the premises.

    I'm sorry but I am just uncomfortable parking in a parking structure 3-4 levels high and having to walk through there, in the dark, unarmed, and no security personel around with literally hundreds of places for a knothead to hide.

    My opinion, for what it's worth, is this: If there are no signs posted on the property grounds, you are simply picking someone up or droping them off, and, it is not a facility on educational grounds, you should be fine outside.

    Craig

    Craig
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Oh, and one other thing... If you are in Lexington and travel across Alumni Drive from Tates Creek to Nicholasville road for example, you are on UK property.

    Here is a map
    Diddle
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    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    I had forgotten to mention THIS situation which sort of ties into this thread.
    Diddle
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    Member Array MgoBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devone6 View Post
    That is true, but be aware that hospitals on college campuses or directly associated with colleges are considered school property.

    Units of state and local governments and postsecondary education facilities (colleges, universities, technical schools and community colleges) have the authority to limit the carrying of concealed weapons on property owned or controlled by them (KRS 237.115).
    Also, KRS 527.070 prohibits unlawful possession (whether carried openly or concealed) of a weapon on school property, and conviction of such is a felony.

    If you carry a deadly weapon (open or concealed) in the University of Kentucky Hospital, or U of L Hospital, forget about trespassing, because you are commiting a felony.
    Absolutely NOT! You make reference to a statute pertaining to primary and secondary education facilities. KRS statutes specifically provide post secondary educational facilities the right to enact policies barring firearms from their property . . . but these policies have no legal punishments attached to them. However, if you are a student, faculty, or staff member, the university quite possibly could dismiss you. Also, as stated previously, if you are asked to leave and you do not, then you will be guilty of trespassing. I've provided the relevant statute below. 237.115(1) gives the university the right to prohibit the carrying of guns. However, 237.115(3) clearly states that no criminal penalty will be assigned to such carrying. The grad student in the story was charged, but the charge for carrying will be dropped (if it hasn't already).

    ======================


    237.115 Construction of KRS 237.110 -- Prohibition by local government units of carrying concealed deadly weapons in governmental buildings -- Restriction on criminal penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, nothing contained in KRS 237.110 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the right of a college, university, or any postsecondary education facility, including technical schools and community colleges, to control the possession of deadly weapons on any property owned or controlled by them or the right of a unit of state, city, county, urban-county, or charter county government to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons by licensees in that portion of a building actually owned, leased, or occupied by that unit of government.
    (2) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, the legislative body of a state, city, county, or urban-county government may, by statute, administrative regulation, or ordinance, prohibit or limit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons by licensees in that portion of a building owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government. That portion of a building in which the carrying of concealed deadly weapons is prohibited or limited shall be clearly identified by signs posted at the entrance to the restricted area. The statute or ordinance shall exempt any building used for public housing by private persons, highway rest areas, firing ranges, and private dwellings owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government from any restriction on the carrying or possession of deadly weapons. The statute, administrative regulation, or ordinance shall not specify any criminal penalty for its violation but may specify that persons violating the statute or ordinance may be denied entrance to the
    building, ordered to leave the building, and if employees of the unit of government, be subject to employee disciplinary measures for violation of the provisions of the statute or ordinance. The provisions of this section shall not be deemed to be a violation of KRS 65.870 if the requirements of this section are followed. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any other unit of government.
    (3) Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.
    Effective: March 31, 2005
    History: Amended 2005 Ky. Acts ch. 182, sec. 16, effective March 31, 2005. -- Created 1996 Ky. Acts ch. 119, sec. 5, effective October 1, 1996.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    ^^^^^Was just going to post something to this effect. Colleges are nothing to CCW in Ky. Nothing more than anyplace else with a sign. Ignore it if you like. You can be asked to leave. If you work there you can be fired. If you go to school there, you can be kicked out --note this is under review currently in Ky.

    SO, If you are going to a College owned hospital, do whatever you'd normally do. Leave it in the car-ok, keep in holstered if you drop off a person--ok, carry it anyway---ok, but you may be asked to leave if they find out. I say, don't let them find out.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MgoBlue View Post
    Absolutely NOT! You make reference to a statute pertaining to primary and secondary education facilities. KRS statutes specifically provide post secondary educational facilities the right to enact policies barring firearms from their property . . . but these policies have no legal punishments attached to them. However, if you are a student, faculty, or staff member, the university quite possibly could dismiss you. Also, as stated previously, if you are asked to leave and you do not, then you will be guilty of trespassing. I've provided the relevant statute below. 237.115(1) gives the university the right to prohibit the carrying of guns. However, 237.115(3) clearly states that no criminal penalty will be assigned to such carrying. The grad student in the story was charged, but the charge for carrying will be dropped (if it hasn't already).

    ======================


    237.115 Construction of KRS 237.110 -- Prohibition by local government units of carrying concealed deadly weapons in governmental buildings -- Restriction on criminal penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, nothing contained in KRS 237.110 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the right of a college, university, or any postsecondary education facility, including technical schools and community colleges, to control the possession of deadly weapons on any property owned or controlled by them or the right of a unit of state, city, county, urban-county, or charter county government to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons by licensees in that portion of a building actually owned, leased, or occupied by that unit of government.
    (2) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, the legislative body of a state, city, county, or urban-county government may, by statute, administrative regulation, or ordinance, prohibit or limit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons by licensees in that portion of a building owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government. That portion of a building in which the carrying of concealed deadly weapons is prohibited or limited shall be clearly identified by signs posted at the entrance to the restricted area. The statute or ordinance shall exempt any building used for public housing by private persons, highway rest areas, firing ranges, and private dwellings owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government from any restriction on the carrying or possession of deadly weapons. The statute, administrative regulation, or ordinance shall not specify any criminal penalty for its violation but may specify that persons violating the statute or ordinance may be denied entrance to the
    building, ordered to leave the building, and if employees of the unit of government, be subject to employee disciplinary measures for violation of the provisions of the statute or ordinance. The provisions of this section shall not be deemed to be a violation of KRS 65.870 if the requirements of this section are followed. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any other unit of government.
    (3) Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.
    Effective: March 31, 2005
    History: Amended 2005 Ky. Acts ch. 182, sec. 16, effective March 31, 2005. -- Created 1996 Ky. Acts ch. 119, sec. 5, effective October 1, 1996.
    Absolutly NOT

    Sorry my friend, but you are not correct.

    Please note in your own post, in the KRS's you quote state " (3)Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried"

    And I'm afraid the Kentucky Revised Statutes do specifically provide a criminal penalty for this, which case law has applied to post secondary schools, and note it says concealed or open, which I copied for you below:

    -------------------------------------
    527.070 Unlawful possession of a weapon on school property -- Posting of sign -- Exemptions.
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when he knowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed, for purposes other than instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or the purposes permitted in subsection (3) of this section, any firearm or other deadly weapon, destructive device, or booby trap device in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education.
    (2) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display about the school in prominent locations, including, but not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums, and cafeterias, a sign at least six (6) inches high and fourteen (14) inches wide stating:
    UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON SCHOOL
    PROPERTY IN KENTUCKY IS A FELONY PUNISHABLE
    BY A MAXIMUM OF FIVE (5) YEARS IN PRISON AND A
    TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR ($10,000) FINE.

    Failure to post the sign shall not relieve any person of liability under this section.
    --------------------------------------------

    Please note the KY CCDW do not supercede these laws, and plainly state that.

    And just so you know I'm not shooting from the hip (which I obviously am not as I directly copied and pastes the KRS laws pertaining to this), but I am also a former KY police officer and current KY CCDW instructor.

    If you carry in to UK hospital you are commiting a crime, no question about it. The case you refer to involves a student, and also a hospital employee, that was fired for having the gun in his vehicle, not on his person, to completely different things. The lawsuit that followed and hasn't been ruled on yet, is a wrongful termination suit on whether or not he should have been fired for breaking his employment and student policy, which both say you can not have a firearm on school property; his argument being he did not break the policy as the gun was in his car. UK says so what the car was on our property and you signed a student and employee contact. I'm not argueing one way or another on this, and if I did I would side with the student

    And as for the doesn't apply to post secondary schools, so far case law has always held in favor of colleges rights to restrict and charge for CCW or open carry on campuses.

    But regardless, the case has nothing to do with physically carrying on school property, which is a felony, including in the hospital.
    Last edited by Devone6; March 20th, 2010 at 09:11 PM.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    And just to relate back to the thread topic, I copied this directly from the KRS


    ------------------------------------
    D. Places where license holders can be prohibited from carrying concealed deadly weapon
    In addition to the above places where state law prohibits carrying a concealed firearm, certain persons and institutions can prohibit license holders from carrying any type of concealed deadly weapon onto their premises.Colleges, universities, and post-secondary education facilities

    --2.Colleges, universities, and post-secondary education facilities (including technical schools and community colleges) have the right to control the possession of deadly weapons (concealed or unconcealed) on property owned or controlled by them.
    (4) Persons licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon pursuant to KRS 237.110 may carry a firearm or other concealed deadly weapon on or about their persons at all times within the Commonwealth of Kentucky, if the firearm or concealed deadly weapon is carried in conformity with the requirements of that section. Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicablefederal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm orother deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.
    -------------------------------

    Again, the KRS do specifically provide for laws/penalties pertaining to school property, which I noted in the above post.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

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    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    ^^^^^Colleges are nothing to CCW in Ky. Nothing more than anyplace else with a sign. Ignore it if you like.
    Very bad advice, as it is not true, see above two posts.

    As a matter of fact, if you don't believe me, even though the laws are posted above, go the the KY State Police web site and go to the CCDW tab- A concealed firearm or other deadly weapon SHALL NOT be carried in the following places: (paraphrasing)-and schools, post secondary education facilities, colleges, and thier property etc... are listed there right along with Detention Centers, Police Departments, Courthouses and the rest of the real no-no places. There really is no question about this
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    ^^^^^You have taken several sections of KRS out of context. Better re read. In order, don't cut and paste to make it say what you want.

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    Here's the whole thing
    527.070 Unlawful possession of a weapon on school property -- Posting of sign -- Exemptions.
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when he knowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed, for purposes other than instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or the purposes permitted in subsection (3) of this section, any firearm or other deadly weapon, destructive device, or booby trap device in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education.

    Notice that it states that it DOES NOT apply to postsecondary or higher education.

    This section 527.070 and it's subsections do not apply to colleges and univeristies.

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