Legal self defense, Illegal carry
This is a discussion on Legal self defense, Illegal carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; #1: The person decided to carry illegally today: if proved, he gets in big trouble.
#2: The person carrying decided to shoot: if righteous, ...
March 20th, 2010 12:28 PM
#1: The person decided to carry illegally today: if proved, he gets in big trouble.
#2: The person carrying decided to shoot: if righteous, no problem (aside from lawyer fees, presumably). Note that bullets in the bad guy pretty much prove #1
Still has to deal with trouble for carrying illegally in #1.
March 20th, 2010 05:18 PM
Wow! The responses so far have been great! I have applied for my ccw permit. Merely waiting for the county to issue. I have no criminal background so I'm just playing the waiting game. I also have no intentions of carrying my gun concealed until I have the proper permit. I was something I have been curious about. I carry a knife on me and a baton in my car, but was thinking "what if".
Some of the cases you all have mentioned are interesting reads.
For me I just run senarios through my head and how I'd like to think I'd respond, and I was wondering if I found myself in a "do or die" situation and j used some sort of illeg means to legally protect myself how it would turn out. It is good to know that some states won't persecute their heros but I completely understand how one can be let go on charges of self defense but criminally charged for a weapons violation. When it comes to it you do onl have one life to live and if you must sacrifice a few of those years to protect yourself so be it. Better than having your life prematurely ended I guess.
Please keep the comments and situation references coming. I am learning quite a bit!
March 20th, 2010 05:45 PM
An illegal carry conviction will usually prevent you from ever getting a CCW license again.
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
March 20th, 2010 05:58 PM
The classic case would be Bernard Goetz back in the 1980s.
Quote from Wikipedia:
Bernard Hugo Goetz, publicly known as Bernhard Goetz or as Bernie Goetz, is an American best known for shooting four young men who he said were intent on mugging him, resulting in his conviction for illegal possession of a firearm. Goetz came to symbolize New Yorkers’ frustrations with the high crime rates of the mid 1980s. The incident occurred on the Seventh Avenue 2 express subway train in Manhattan on December 22, 1984. It sparked a nationwide debate on vigilantism, the perceptions of race and crime in major cities, and the legal limits of self-defense.
Goetz fired an unlicensed revolver five times, seriously wounding all of the would-be muggers. The initially unknown shooter, dubbed the "Subway Vigilante" by the New York press, was both exalted and vilified in the media and in public opinion.
Goetz surrendered to police nine days later and was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, and several firearms offenses. A Manhattan jury found him not guilty of all charges except an illegal firearms possession count, for which he served two-thirds of a one-year sentence. The incident has been cited as a contributing factor to the groundswell movement against urban crime and disorder, and successful National Rifle Association campaigns to loosen restrictions on the concealed carrying of firearms.
March 20th, 2010 06:56 PM
The following is Georgia state law:
Originally Posted by AtlantaSW40
Part 3. Carrying and Possession of Firearms
16-11-126. Carrying a concealed weapon.
(a) A person commits the offense of carrying
a concealed weapon when such person knowingly
has or carries about his or her person, unless
in an open manner and fully exposed to
view, any bludgeon, metal knuckles, firearm,
knife designed for the purpose of offense and
defense, or any other dangerous or deadly
weapon or instrument of like character outside of
his or her home or place of business, except as
permitted under this Code section.
(b) Upon conviction of the offense of carrying
a concealed weapon, a person shall be punished
(1) For the first offense, he or she shall be
guilty of a misdemeanor; and
(2) For the second offense, and for any subsequent
offense, he or she shall be guilty of a
felony and, upon conviction thereof shall be
imprisoned for not less than two years and not
more than five years.
(c) This Code section shall not permit, outside
of his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of
business, the concealed carrying of a pistol, revolver,
or concealable firearm by any person unless
that person has on his or her person a valid
license issued under Code Section 16-11-129
and the pistol, revolver, or firearm may only be
carried in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster,
any other holster, hipgrip, or any other similar
device, in which event the weapon may be concealed
by the person's clothing, or a handbag,
purse, attaché case, briefcase, or other closed
container. Carrying on the person in a concealed
manner other than as provided in this subsection
shall not be permitted and shall be a violation of
this Code section.
You are in trouble for the weapons violation but you would not usually go to the county jail if you can post bond and if that was the only charge and is a first offense.
Unless you are convicted of a felony in Georgia, you can still obtain a concealed carry permit once the misdemeanor is adjudicated. Forget about being innocent until proved guilty. Under the above section, you are guilty of the weapon violation.
If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
- Zen Saying
March 20th, 2010 09:15 PM
How about this scenario your transporting a firearm through a state your not licensed in to one you are licensed in. You are either attacked or witness an attack in progress at a rest area can you use your gun? Sorry if this hijacks the thread just thought it was on the same idea.
March 21st, 2010 03:29 PM
That's a great scenario...just hope that happens in Tennessee and apparently you'll be clean and clear so long as you were rescuing someone is what I'm to understand.
March 21st, 2010 03:40 PM
Lock up and unload your gun as per federal transport statue, and stay in your vehicle the whole time. Don't stop at all.
Originally Posted by madplmber
I would rather take my chances with surviving a gunshot wound after driving away than go up against a jury in some anti-carry places. My chances might be better.
Bottom line: there are lots of places where you can get a permit and carry. If you are really worried, you should just stick to those places only...in a lot of states you could easily go through your whole life without having to enter a 'no carry' zone, so why risk prison?
Or, if you believe that a 'best effort' attempt to carry is enough (as I do), you can just disarm when it is illegal or inconvenient. I visited DC yesterday, and though I hate it, I left my guns at home and went completely unarmed. That's life.
"Trust in God with hand on sword"
-Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately.
March 23rd, 2010 01:08 AM
in tn the da and sherrif have a choice to present charges or not
March 23rd, 2010 01:43 AM
If you wouldnt get in trouble for using it in a justifiable manner I would carry without a license.
March 24th, 2010 10:33 AM
Sounds to me like he shot the wrong person!
Originally Posted by rmodel65
March 24th, 2010 10:36 AM
While I would NEVER advocate anyone break the law: As more and more mess hits the blades in more and more places, I become less and less concerned with the pure legalities of where and when I can carry.
March 24th, 2010 11:55 PM
Amen to that Keltyke.. but you still have to CYA
Originally Posted by Keltyke
March 25th, 2010 12:32 AM
If you defend yourself while carrying concealed without a license, regardless of how the shooting case turns out, expect to do 5 years on the gun charge.
Whether you actually serve 5 years in prison will likely depend on how much money you have and how good your attorney is but you should expect the illegal gun carry charge to be pursued by the prosecutor.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 25th, 2010 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Bark'n
its only a misd to carry to a public gathering in GA which is a year...and carrying without a license is also only a misd....so no where near 5 years maybe a fine and loss of his GFL for 5 years
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S&W 640-1 or Sig P238 as a CC rig
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