military discharge question
This is a discussion on military discharge question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Sixgunner
These upgrades are not handed out as easy as some people think. You must prove that it was inequitable or improper.
March 25th, 2010 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Sixgunner
I agree, I am also an honorably discharged veteran. Many a man and now women have done what they took an oath to do, dating back to the birth of this nation. I'm kind of surprised at the casual attitude of those who have a less then honorable discharge,( and I'm not talking about medical discharge ). Then again, I guess they took the oath casually also.
March 25th, 2010 01:02 PM
March 25th, 2010 01:25 PM
Well guys sorry, but I will take a different path. As 24 year vet, infantry, I served as a First Sergeant in several units.
I cannot bash a guy/gal just because they an OTH discharge. Crap happens and believe it or not sometimes the person being discharged is getting the shaft.
So if the OP was discharged OTH as a result of an Article 15, Captains Mast, or whatever the Air Force refers to it as, then I'd say, you're pretty much in a bind.
The official definition:
Under Other Than Honorable Conditions. OTH Discharges are warranted when the reason for separation is based upon a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services, or when the reason for separation is based upon one or more acts or omissions that constitute a significant departure from the conduct expected of members of the Military Services. Examples of factors that may be considered include the use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death, abuse of a special position of trust, disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships, acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services, and deliberate acts or omissions that seriously endanger the health and safety of other persons.
Persons awarded an OTH characterization of service: are not entitled to retain their uniforms or wear them home (although they may be furnished civilian clothing at a cost of not more than $50); must accept transportation in kind to their homes; are subject to recoupment of any reenlistment bonus they may have received; are not eligible for notice of discharge to employers (which may affect unemployment benefits); and, do not receive mileage fees from the place of discharge to their home of record.
It is generally believed that an OTH Discharge will render an individual ineligible for all VA Benefits. This is not necessarily so. The Department of Veterans Affairs will make its own determination with respect as to whether the OTH was based on conditions which would forfeit any or all VA benefits. Most veterans' benefits will be forfeited if that determination is adverse to the former service-member, such as when based on the following circumstances: (1) Desertion; (2) escape prior to trial by general court-martial; (3) conscientious objector who refuses to perform military duties, wear the uniform, or comply with lawful orders of competent military authorities; (4) willful or persistent misconduct; (5) offense(s) involving moral turpitude; (6) mutiny or spying; or (7) homosexual acts involving aggravating circumstances.
Read more here: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/gener...schargeupg.htm
March 25th, 2010 05:52 PM
Agree 1000%. Most discharges are impossible to upgrade. What you got is what you earned .
Originally Posted by Sixgunner
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
March 25th, 2010 07:58 PM
I agree with others in that your discharge doesn’t appear to be an issue. You would know if it was, at the time of separation. After a 30+ year career I know a person with an RE3’ type discharge and that person subsequently received a carry permit.
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
March 25th, 2010 08:24 PM
That covers a lot of area
Originally Posted by Saber
USMC > Navy > Coast Guard RE codes
RE-3A- Failure to meet area aptitude prerequisites. Fully qunlified for enlistment, provided mental criteria of table 2-1 are met. Alien.
RE-3B- Restricted assignment. Parenthood. Pregnancy.
RE-3C- Reenlistment authorized by CMC only. Ineligible for enlistment, unless waiver is granted. Conscientious Objector.
RE-3D- Failure to meet disciplinary standards. Ineligible for enlistment, unless waiver is granted. Demonstrated dependency or hardship not meetinq criteria specified in Bupersman article C-10308.
RE-3E- Failure to meet education prerequisites. Fully qualified for enlistment provided education criteria is met. Erroneous induction.
RE-3F- Erroneous enlistment.
RE-3G- Condition (not physical disability) interfering with performance of duty.
RE-3K- Disenrolled Irom Naval Academy, not considered qualified for enlisted status.
RE-3N- Importance to national health, safety or interest.
RE-3P- Physical disability (includes discharge and transfer to TDRL). Obesity. Motion sickness. Disqualified for officer candidate training.
RE-3R- Rank reappointment restriction. Ineligible for reenlist unless waivered
RE-3R- Professional growth criteria. Ineligible for reenlist unless waivered
RE-3S- Sole surviving son.
US Army RE-3 codes
Military Reenlistment Eligibility (RE) Code
These codes are contained on military discharge documents and determine whether or not one may reenlist or enlist in a military service at a later time. In general, those who receive an Army RE Code of 1 may reenlist in the Army or another service with no problem. Individuals with an Army RE Code of "2" may usually reenlist in the Army or another service with various restrictions, or if the circumstances which resulted in the code no longer apply. Individuals with an RE Code of "3" can normally reenlist in the Army or another Service, but will probably require a waiver to be processed. Individuals with an Army RE Code of "4" are normally not eligible to reenlist in the Army, nor join another service.
RE-3 - Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.
RE-3A - Section 1. Individuals who do not possess scores of or higher in any 3 or more aptitude areas of the AQB or the ACB. However, this code is o longer used for this disqualification. Fully qualified for enlistment if mental requirements of table 2-1 can be met. Prior service mental requirements are nonwaiverable. Waiver, if approved, is valid only for the purpose ol providing continuous, unbroken service for RA in-service personnnel.
Section 2. Individuals with over 6 years of service for ay who have incurred an additional service equirement and who decline to meet the additional service through reenlistment or extension and were separated on or after 15 Aug 1977. Fully qualified for enlistment. Waiver, if approved, is valid only for the purpose ol providing continuous, unbroken service for RA in-service personnel.
RE-3B - Individuals who have time lost during their last period of service. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. (paras 2-7 and 2-8a). Applicable to EM who have time lost during thier last period of service.
RE-3C - lndividuals who have completed over 4 months service who do not meet the pay grade requirements of Chapter 2), or who have been denied enlistment under Qualitative Screening Process pursuant to Chapter 4 AR 600-200. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. Applicable to persons who have completed over 8 months service who do not meet the prior grade and service criterion of the Qualitative Management Program (AR 600-200 Chapter 4).
USAF RE-3 Codes
RE-3A- 1st airman separating before 36 months; or 1st term, no prior svc; females learning of pregnancy prior to enlistment
RE-3B- 1st or 2nd term or career airman ineligible to reenlist, ineligibility condition no longer exists
RE-3C- 1st term airman not yet considered under SRP
RE-3D- 2nd term airman who refused to get PCS or TDY retainability
RE-3E- 2nd term or career airman who refused to get retainability for training or retraining or delined to attend PME
RE-3I- Airman selected for reenlistment, by HQ AFPC removed the airman's name from the CJR waiting list within 5 months of DOS
RE-3K- Reserved for use by HQ AFPC or AFB for Correction of Mili Rcds when no other reenlistment eligibility code applies
RE-3S- Separated w/Special Sep Benefit
March 25th, 2010 08:47 PM
8. Not be prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under MCL 750.224f
9. Have never been convicted of a felony in Michigan or elsewhere
10. Have no felony charge pending in Michigan or elsewhere
11. Have not been dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces
12. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors
^^^Above is an excerpt from the Michigan State Police website pertaining to cpl, in the firearms section
Check and see if Cali SP has a similar section on their website
as I said these are a few of the disqualifiers in MI., among many
Nothing in there about "other than honorable
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April 23rd, 2010 06:19 PM
I got a OTH; I got a CWP too
Don't be discouraged. I got an OTH in 1999, yeah I did something dumb. In the civilian world it might have gotten me some community service and/or some probation if any prosecutor wanted to persue it. In the corporate world I would expect to have been fired. But the Navy took it to heart and took me to task. My misconduct occurred while at sea, and landed me in Captain's Mast and the brig for the remainder of the tour, then a discharge at the next port.
My OTH has not caused me trouble with jobs, clearance, or NICS. I never really thought twice about it until I wanted a CWP. I found out that in LA they ask specifically if "BCD, DD, OTH", these are stoppers. I researched a discharge upgrade and contacted the VA, which looked lengthy, and poor chances of getting the approval. If I change my mind, I still have 3 years until the 15 year cut off date.
I also agree with Sixshooter about the discharge to begin with. (even though it is me that he is talking about.) You are right, I didn't fulfill the oath that I took, but my service (and subsequent OTH discharge) shaped the man that I am today.
upgrades are a slap in the face to us vets that man up
BTW Thank you Vet! You are a better man than I.
So anyway...... one of my buds at laopencarry.org suggested I look into a Fla non-res CWP. This is perfectly legal, and offers more reciprocity than a LA CWP, lasts longer (7 years vs 4yrs), required less paperwork, and costs less $. I applied for the Fla permit and got it back this week!
The only drawback is that some states don't honor a CWP unless you ARE A RESIDENT of the issuing state (ie. Alabama wont honor my Fla permit unless the permitee resides in Fla). For now Louisiana is honoring the non-res permit, and I am good to go.
April 23rd, 2010 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Supertac45
April 23rd, 2010 09:39 PM
While the past can't be changed, that's not the case when looking forward into the future. For example, the type of discharge one has is important regarding any claims with Veterans Affairs. I'd recommend that the OP go after the upgrade now and be well-prepared for future applications where this is relevant.
Originally Posted by WC145
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
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