locked in car on school property

This is a discussion on locked in car on school property within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Feel naked today. Got my permit in January. Have carried every day since. Will enjoy my son's game , but not the empty feeling on ...

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Thread: locked in car on school property

  1. #16
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    Unhappy

    Feel naked today. Got my permit in January. Have carried every day since. Will enjoy my son's game , but not the empty feeling on my hip :(
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    In FL, you're breaking the law...in WA you are also.

    From WA state...
    Places off-limits when carrying:

    Washington defines a number of places you cannot carry:
    1. Any place where carrying firearms is prohibited by federal law
    2. Public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas/facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools (RCW 9.41.280)
    3. On the site of an "outdoor music festival" (RCW 70.108.150)

    If caught, you'd have some splainin' to do...

    Here's your answer
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  4. #18
    Member Array MaineGlock's Avatar
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    Here is a simple solution. Find out where the schools property lines are located. Park your car a short distance, one street over, one block over, just so that you are not on school property. At that point, I would guess that you could lock your gun in your trunk as you see fit. Course you may want to double check on laws and boundries. This way you dont have to go the whole day without.
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  5. #19
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    if gun is on school property (parkign lot) your in violation , i cant even carry when drop off kid to school i have to leave gun at home , once yo enter school property -school line, your on federal grounds. college and high schools are different, college property is private property not federal property.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmPro View Post
    if gun is on school property (parkign lot) your in violation , i cant even carry when drop off kid to school i have to leave gun at home , once yo enter school property -school line, your on federal grounds. college and high schools are different, college property is private property not federal property.
    Schools aren't federal property, they are city or county property. This includes high schools.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaineGlock View Post
    Here is a simple solution. Find out where the schools property lines are located. Park your car a short distance, one street over, one block over, just so that you are not on school property. At that point, I would guess that you could lock your gun in your trunk as you see fit. Course you may want to double check on laws and boundries. This way you dont have to go the whole day without.
    I assume you are talking the State of PA -- not the whole country.

    Right?
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  8. #22
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    Fed Law

    BTW as long as we have opened this can of worms lets not forget that the exception in TITLE 18 is for permits issued "by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State" not by reciprocity.

    TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 44 922 Unlawful acts
    ....
    (q)
    ....

    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    [Emphasis added]
    So, be careful speeding in an out-of-State school zone while carrying based on reciprocity.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Is unloaded, locked and kept in your car considered "carrying"?
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    Is unloaded, locked and kept in your car considered "carrying"?
    Not in Va. Note that the exemption to " 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited" for an unloaded firearm is that it must be in a "closed container" not necessarily "locked".

    vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container.
    OTOH, a loaded firearm in a locked container has become a gray area

    BTW, note the variation in the different laws (Fed and various States) between the use of "possess", "possessing", "possession", etc and "carry", "carrying", etc.

    Also, note that although Va is an open carry State, the exemption to " 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited" by a CHP holder requires concealment:

    (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  11. #25
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the law that you can't have a firearm within 500 feet of a school in WA also? Then, if you felt you couldn't leave your gun in your car on school grounds, wouldn't that also mean 500 feet away from school grounds? But in all honesty, I have been on school grounds with a weapon before.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Short answer, either leave the gun at home, or park off school property.
    Bingo.

    This is the general rule _most_ everywhere.

    There are a few states such as VA that have _specific_ allowance byut those are outliers as against the whole, thus the general rule.

    As well Federal law disallows same at K-12 schools as with a very specific subset of allowances.

    Like with most everything else gun related first step should be to check ones own state _and_ local/community laws.
    Myself to beat this I park my vehicle off school grounds and walk to the school. A schools parking lot is school property same as being in the schools gym or seated in the principals office.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Bingo.

    This is the general rule _most_ everywhere.

    There are a few states such as VA that have _specific_ allowance byut those are outliers as against the whole, thus the general rule.

    As well Federal law disallows same at K-12 schools as with a very specific subset of allowances.

    Like with most everything else gun related first step should be to check ones own state _and_ local/community laws.
    Myself to beat this I park my vehicle off school grounds and walk to the school. A schools parking lot is school property same as being in the schools gym or seated in the principals office.

    - Janq
    I'm getting old and my memory may well be faulty, but I thought the federal restrictions were thrown out a few years ago.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I'm getting old and my memory may well be faulty, but I thought the federal restrictions were thrown out a few years ago.
    Reinstated / re-enacted with a hook to the interstate commerce clause in order to get pass the "it's not a federal issue" court decision.


    1) The Congress finds and declares that—
    (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate; (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    [emphasis added]
    Congress doesn't take being told it's none of their bee's wax with grace, even when it is none of their bee's wax.

    Last edited by DaveH; March 25th, 2010 at 05:15 PM. Reason: sp
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    1. It is not against Fedl law to carry on school grounds, IF ... I stress the IF .. you have a CC license from your state and the state you live in allows it.
    Here, unless the school "posts" the "building" with anb AG's sign, it is entirely legal to carry in the school buildings and they are not allowed to post any "school grounds". Sporting events can be posted.

    2. If it's illegal to carry on school grounds in Washington, you aren't carrying if you aren't carrying it.... but you are into whether it's legal to have a gun stowed on school grounds... and that's a whole different issue. Here, if you are a CC holder, it would be legal to have it in your car loaded ... but you don't live here.

    I had to mention this, because there were too many "assumptions" being made in some of the posts.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I'm getting old and my memory may well be faulty, but I thought the federal restrictions were thrown out a few years ago.
    Nope.

    They remain as part and parcel to the Gun Control act of 1968.
    That laws parts and pieces to this day has been getting folk hemmed up with long mandatory minimums as related to the 1K ft clause along with others therein.
    Don't know why you would have thought it had been removed...It's still very much in force.

    Chapter 44 of Title 18, United States Code

    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.

    (2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is:

    (I) not loaded;and

    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motorvehicle;


    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity;or

    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

    (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm:

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between aschool in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;or

    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

    (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

    Source - http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#summarys
    Additionally many states 'preempt' the federal law by specifically stating that is is unlawful to posses on K-12 aka primary and secondary school grounds. This supersedes the often cited point that I'd bolded.
    Again just a few states allow as much including notably VA as indicated in this thread. But overall for the vast majority and general rule, this is a no go item and has been for decades and generations.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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