Would inform LEO?? - Page 4

Would inform LEO??

This is a discussion on Would inform LEO?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ontarget1911 As a LEO I would lock your butt up for being belligerent. Sheesh!! Toward whom are you directing this statement? Or ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontarget1911 View Post
    As a LEO I would lock your butt up for being belligerent. Sheesh!!
    Toward whom are you directing this statement?

    Or are you saying that you would arrest someone for choosing not to inform when they are under no legal obligation to do so? That sounds a lot like a false arrest to me...

    Would you care to explain exactly how it is belligerent, disrespectful, or (referencing your earlier post) nonsensical to choose not to inform when not legally obligated to do so?
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  2. #47
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ontarget1911 As a LEO I would lock your butt up for being belligerent. Sheesh!!
    And I (as well as my lawyer) would retire on the proceeds of the lawsuit. While you would be lucky to get a job as a security guard.

  3. #48
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    I've worked with and around LEO's for many years, but I am not one. In 50 years of driving I've been stopped twice. Indiana does not require me to inform an officer if I am carrying, unless he asks. In both my cases, I simply handed him my license to carry, and my drivers' license at the same time. In both instances, one a State Trooper, and the other a county Deputy, my license to carry was handed back, along with my drivers' license, without comment and a verbal caution was issued, and I was on my way.

    Respect works two ways. If you drive like you have some smarts, you very likely won't get pulled over in the first place.

    Just my two cents........
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  4. #49
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    The debate that this thread has been turned into is like a broken record. It goes on and on, over and over. Both sides of the issues have valid points and concerns. I think it just boils down to common sense and following the law.

    There are a couple of points that were brought up I'd like to address though. First, the officers safety can be your problem. If you do something that jeopardizes the officers safety, be it real or perceived, whom do you think is going to get the raw deal when it comes down to it? The poster who brought that up has done so a few times already; it shows nothing more than ignorance of the situation.
    A permit is hardly a 'get out of jail free' card, or a certified good guy. It means nothing to me. They might as well put them in cracker jack boxes because anybody can get one. (as it should be) I've arrested two permit holders this week. One for domestic violence and the other for agg. menacing. Both are turds in my book.

    Thats enough of that. Please continue going around in circles. I'll be moderating from a far and stay out of the hamster wheel.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Well put Sixto.

    Attitude is what this is mainly about, not the fact that you are a legal permit holder or a firm believer in 2A and it would upset you to let the Officer know.

    The attitude that it's my "right" and I'm not disclosing it to the Officer unless I absolutely have to is not a good way to start, but the attitude of some Law Enforcement people foster resentment in having to disclose. From both sides I believe this to be a matter of choice at that moment. Making a bad choice has consequences on both sides of the issue.

    I did not inform the Indiana State Trooper when he pulled me over for speeding. In a nano second, I decided not to because it was a state that did not require it. He never asked if I had any firearms etc and everyone in and outside the vehicle was polite. With the exception of our very aggressive dog. I was holding her back, she was the real threat, not me and my Rossi .38spl believe me.

    My buddy in Jacksonville, FL is a traffic cop who says he really doesn't care if he's informed or not, like you Sixto, he thinks that people should be able to get permits and carry. He says he worries more about the not so legal one with the handgun and his training helps to know and watch for that.

    So, inform or not to inform. That is the question.
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  6. #51
    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    I choose not to inform unless specifically asked. Why? Experience.

    Although I've only talked guns to very few Phoenix officers, the general consensus was that they are MANDATED to take your weapon and 'contain' you. Now, I understand that this may only be one officers opinion, or it may be the the real deal. I don't know for sure. Opinion or mandate, I personally am not real anxious find out first hand.

    I have had the opportunity to shoot with one Phoenix officer, I let him shoot my Sig, but he had no idea how to operate it, he was unsure of the controls etc. He asked me to go over it with him and I did. Thank goodness he had the sense to ask. My point is that Phoenix officers are issued Glocks and according to this officer they receive no real training on any other brands. This officer considered himself a gun guy, but up to that point had only shot his Glocks and an old Smith revolver he owns.

    I really don't want an officer 'taking control' of my firearm when I know there is a very good chance that officer does not know how to safely handle it.

    Now maybe the Arizona DPS handles things differently, or gets better training, I can not say. From a personal standpoint I'd like to have full confidence in any officer that would interact with me, I think it's the way it should be. However, experience has convinced me otherwise.

    Am I sure I'll get a 'SIXTO', 'Hot Guns' or the like? Or will I get 'officer awesome', 'officer snotty', 'officer gung ho' or maybe even 'officer anti'. I just don't like the gamble. Just for the record, I'm not anti-cop, I'm pro-me

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  7. #52
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    I too agree with SIXTO. To those of you who choose not to inform because it is your right not to inform- are you taking this stance just on legal principle only, without thinking of possible consequences? It's not as if you are breaking the law by choosing to inform.

    I think I am hearing the attitude from a lot of folks of a beligerent nature, sort of "it's my right not to inform, so no matter what, I won't do it".

    In all the posts I've read over the years it seems as though everyone, LEO and detainee, get off to a good start by informing right off the bat. That way the LEO generally knows where he/she stands at the get-go. It seems to me just to be plain courtesy.

    New York is not a "must inform" state, however, I would not hesitate for a second to let a LEO who stopped me know that I am carrying. I think it removes one level of tension, and may even result in (assuming I didn't really do anything egregious), a warning and a wave goodbye.

    I know it's my right NOT to inform. But at the same time, it also seems the the right thing to do.
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  8. #53
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    We are not required to inform in Tennessee unless asked. I have never had a problem...but there is a couple who sat behind me in Sunday school every week. He is 75 and a retired real estate agent and contractor. His wife is on the city council.

    This lady policewoman who moved here from New York pulled him over for a small infraction. he informed her he had a permit and was carrying. She ordered him out of the car at gun point, disarmed him and put him in hand cuffs. It was also raining and she made him stand out in the rain for a good deal of time. of course there was a big write up in the paper. He was threatening to sue. His wife being a city council member didn't help the lady cop. Her explanation was she felt threatened. She is no longer on the force...
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  9. #54
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I choose not to inform because it's less hassle for me. I also don't want to find out the hard way that I just got pulled over buy officer anti.

    I've been pulled over twice since I started carrying. Both times it was the same CSP trooper so I have a good contrast on this guy because one time he asked me and one time he didn't. I wasn't ticketed either time and his overall attitude was professional and courteous ( I even shot the breeze W/ him a little) Both times he introduced himself, stated his specific reason for stopping me and asked for my DL& POI. The second time he asked if I had any weapons in the vehicle as soon as he had my DL/POI. I hand him my permit and HE FREAKED! he jumped back from the car put his hand on his piece and told me I was "required" (false there is no such requirement in Colorado) to inform him as soon as he approached the vehicle. He got it back together pretty quickly and the rest of the stop was OK but I decided then and there I would never inform again unless I was required or asked.

    As for the "Always inform " side of the house.
    I have read a post on this forum that stated that our CHP made us "the cousin of the LEO".Elsewhere, I have read an entire thread that said that permit holders are LEO. I have also read several threads and posts stating that we have a responsibility , nay a solem duty, to intervene in crimes and protect the flock.

    I really believe that some of the "always inform" crowd truly believe in their deepest,fevered, fantasies that their permit makes them an adjunct LEO and they can't wait to show that card to the cop.

    But that's just a theory

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY
    I too agree with SIXTO. To those of you who choose not to inform because it is your right not to inform- are you taking this stance just on legal principle only, without thinking of possible consequences? It's not as if you are breaking the law by choosing to inform.
    As long as you are not mandated to inform, there is no "right" and "wrong." It one's own decision as to whether they choose to disclose their status or not.

    I do not feel that it is in any way belligerent or disrespectful to choose not to inform (at what point did exercising one's rights become disrespectful?).
    Furthermore, I don't think people should be bullied, "guilted," or intimidated into feeling that they "should" waive their right to keep their mouth shut if that is, in their opinion, the best way to handle the situation.


    I know there are many cops who believe absolutely in the 2nd Amendment and people's right to carry a firearm for their personal protection. Their actions/procedures when dealing with CCW holders and/or gun owners reflects this belief. I have several very close friends who are part of this group (if they weren't, I probably wouldn't associate with them).

    However, the sad thing is that there are also many who are either elitist thugs who feel that they are the only ones who should be armed, or insecure individuals who are uncomfortable with guns and therefore with those who choose to carry them. If you end up dealing with one of these, you can easily end up being part of one of the horror stories we hear so often.


    Another valid point that has been made several times is that the officer may have no idea how to operate your firearm and may therefore be endangering you by fiddling with it if he/she attempts to "secure" it.
    I could go on, there are other reasons why I don't particularly want them messing with my firearm...


    I think for me it boils down to this:

    If you choose to inform, fine...it may not be a bad choice depending on the circumstances. However, acting based on your sense of courtesy or "toeing the party line" (whichever shoe fits), does not make you superior to those of us who may choose to exercise our right to STFU.
    If you want to inform, knock yourself out...but leave the "holier than thou" attitude at home.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  11. #56
    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    I think for me it boils down to this:

    If you choose to inform, fine...it may not be a bad choice depending on the circumstances. However, acting based on your sense of courtesy or "toeing the party line" (whichever shoe fits), does not make you superior to those of us who may choose to exercise our right to STFU.
    If you want to inform, knock yourself out...but leave the "holier than thou" attitude at home.

    +1. Exactly.

  12. #57
    Member Array spar10's Avatar
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    maybe we need to start a new thread.... the "why are you getting pulled over so much" thread.

  13. #58
    Member Array crstrode's Avatar
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    Don't ask - Don't tell.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar10 View Post
    maybe we need to start a new thread.... the "why are you getting pulled over so much" thread.
    You've got a point there. As a rule I obey all the laws I'm aware of. I can think of a few instances where I may be pulled over mechanical issue I'm not aware of, vehicle or myself matches the description of someone they are looking for. There are probably more, but it could happen though I doubt it would be frequently.

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  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar10 View Post
    maybe we need to start a new thread.... the "why are you getting pulled over so much" thread.


    I've been driving for about 50 years and I have been pulled over about a half dozen times - two for speeding (both dismissed by the judge) and maybe four times in DL/insurance checks. Oh yea, For 40 of those years, I averaged 30k miles a year. It's amazing how uneventful driving/traveling can be when you bother to obey traffic laws.

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