non permit holder in car

This is a discussion on non permit holder in car within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When traveling sometimes I put my CCW in the glove box..Oregon law states that a concealed weapon can not accessible to the vehicles occupants (CCP ...

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Thread: non permit holder in car

  1. #1
    New Member Array Wistrick's Avatar
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    non permit holder in car

    When traveling sometimes I put my CCW in the glove box..Oregon law states that a concealed weapon can not accessible to the vehicles occupants (CCP holder exemption). But my wife doesn't have a permit so legally the weapon is accessible to her sitting in the passenger seat...Am I putting her in danger of getting arrested ???

    Dan

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  3. #2
    Gaz
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    I'm not sure whether she would be the one arrested based on your representation of the law. In any case, it sounds like this would be considered a violation of the law although it may be you that gets arrested.

    You may consider getting one of those clip on cross-draw holsters for such occasions.

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    It seems [TO ME]that you may be putting your permit in danger by making a firearm available to a non-permitte. Also, does Oregon consider your "car" a public place?

    This may be of some help. Scroll down to 166.170

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Your probably best asking a lawyer or LEO in OR; at least I think that would be preferred to being a test case for learning the extent of the law the hard way.

    Have you searched for OR case law on this, I know it's been addressed in several states in that manner, with differing results in different states.

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    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    I'm not sure whether she would be the one arrested based on your representation of the law. In any case, it sounds like this would be considered a violation of the law although it may be you that gets arrested.

    You may consider getting one of those clip on cross-draw holsters for such occasions.
    That would not fix his situation. Here is the Oregon law:

    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

    166.250. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:

    (a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;

    (b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle;

    (4)(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a handgun is readily accessible within the meaning of this section if the handgun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

    (b) If a vehicle has no storage location that is outside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, a handgun is not readily accessible within the meaning of this section if:

    (A) The handgun is stored in a closed and locked glove compartment, center console or other container; and

    (B) The key is not inserted into the lock, if the glove compartment, center console or other container unlocks with a key.

    (5) Unlawful possession of a firearm is a Class A misdemeanor.

    166.260 Persons not affected by ORS 166.250. (1) ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

    (h) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

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    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    From the Oregon law above, it seems like, in a vehicle with an exterior compartment such as a trunk, there is no way that a permit holder can have their gun anywhere inside the passenger compartment when there is a non-permit holder in the vehicle.

    If there is no exterior compartment, it would seem OK for the permit holder to LOCK their gun in the glove compartment if there was a non permit holder in the car.

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    New Member Array Wistrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigStill View Post
    It seems [TO ME]that you may be putting your permit in danger by making a firearm available to a non-permitte. Also, does Oregon consider your "car" a public place?

    This may be of some help. Scroll down to 166.170

    Craig
    Yes Oregon does consider your car a public place if its on public roadways ect...

    Dan

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I say if you are driving just strap it to the roof just above your head (outside of the car), this way when you get pulled over you can explain that your passenger can't reach it that way.

    Report back, once bail is made.

    The way I see it, according to the law posted, you would be in violation of the silly law. I will never understand laws like that, but then again I was never asked of my opinion.
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    Member Array crf3973's Avatar
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    When I took my CCW class here in Eugene, this subject was brought up. Only time your gun gets concealed in the glove box is if your passengers are CCW holders as well or you are just by your self. A non licensed person sitting in front of that glove box is a no no.

  11. #10
    New Member Array Wistrick's Avatar
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    Well I sent a email to OFF (Oregon Firearm Federation) and got this response..

    No. I doubt it. If the license holder was present, I cannot imagine any court saying the other person "possessed" the gun.

    Interesting...

    Dan

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Does your car have a pocket or map holder in the drivers' side door? That's where I keep my firearm when my wife is in the car with me.
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  13. #12
    Member Array dgreen's Avatar
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    why would you put the gun anywhere that will cost you time in case the shtf. there was a shooting thursday on the freeway here in cleveland, started by possible road rage. 2 cars hit each other (rear ended). first car stopped on shoulder, 2nd driver stopped in right lane next to first car and shot the driver in the neck. how fast could you get to your gun in the glove box in that situation. all you could do is pray. guns are meant to be carried. if your gun/holster get uncomfortable you need a better holster or lighter gun. just my .02

    Dave

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    This sentence is troubling:
    "(4)(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a handgun is readily accessible within the meaning of this section if the handgun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle."

    Read very literally it means that even if the gun is concealed on the person of a permit holder, the passenger could get in trouble because the gun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

    Only an OR lawyer who has researched the case law can tell you for sure; or an OR LE who is intimately familiar with the subject, or an OR CHL/CWP instructor, perhaps.

    I can't see anyone actually holding a passenger responsible for a gun concealed on a permit holder, but stranger things have happened.

    Anyway, best practice--IMO-- it belongs on your person and never in a compartment, locked or otherwise. If you conceal on your person you are unlikely to accidentally get someone else in trouble, unlikely to to forget the gun and get out of the car while leaving it behind where it might get stolen, and it is accessible for an emergency.

    I know I have heard of cases that went something like this (prior to a Texas law change). A CHL holder and his wife stop at a rest stop. For whatever reason, the license holder leaves the gun in the car. Wife finishes up first and returns to the car. Something happens to bring car to attention of police, and suddenly SHE is the one in illegal possession. It seems as if that could happen in OR. Your wife gets back to the car first. The license holder isn't around, but she and the gun are together in the car. You don't want to make that mistake.

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    I have an idea, why not have your wife get her permit?
    Problem solved!
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I have an idea, why not have your wife get her permit?
    Problem solved!
    Or you can always move to FLORIDA ; )
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