National Park Carry Law - Page 3

National Park Carry Law

This is a discussion on National Park Carry Law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by chiefjason Actually, no. NC does not allow park carry. But the GSMNP does. State park carry has no bearing on the NPS. ...

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  1. #31
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Actually, no. NC does not allow park carry. But the GSMNP does. State park carry has no bearing on the NPS. OR vice versa. I cannot carry in state parks administered by the state of NC. But I most certainly can carry in the GSMNP or BRPW.
    chiefjason,

    You might be confusing "no carry in any parks" statutes with "no carry in state parks" statutes/regulations.

    If a state has a statute that prohibits carrying a firearm in ANY park within that state, that statute would also apply to a National Park within that state.

    If a state has a statute or regulation that prohibits carrying a firearm in a STATE park, then you are correct, that statute/regulation would not apply in the National Park, because National Parks are not state parks.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    If a state has a statute that prohibits carrying a firearm in ANY park within that state, that statute would also apply to a National Park within that state.
    Did you look at the links in my above post, #29? Explain to me how the NPS says I am OK to carry in GSMNP or BRPW in NC when NC does not allow carry in state parks? I think you are referring to the original NPS rule change. State agencies that manage STATE parks have no affiliation with the NPS. The rules are apples and oranges. State no park carry laws apply to state parks only. They don't even apply to local city parks in NC. That is the domain of local Gov. The state does not tell the NPS how to do their business unless you can point me to a specific law that corroborates what you are saying. Then the NPS in GSMNP and BRPW in NC would be wrong.

    Or am I misreading something and there is a relevant issue in your state? Does anyone know of a state that limits carry in all parks. Can state law even supersede federal law in this instance? I really think that this is being made a bigger deal than it really is. You are allowed to carry normally as in any other part of the state under the new law.

    Hmm, no mention of it relying on state park laws here on the NPS press release. I think that would be an important bit of info if it was relevant.

    National Park Service Press Releases

    jem, in NC follow state law and any signs you encounter as you said. Should be good to go. Just make sure you know where you are, state parks and gamelands that are connected to these parks have different rules/laws.
    Last edited by chiefjason; March 30th, 2010 at 01:56 PM. Reason: added questions and info
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    So, as TN has reciprocity with VA and NC I am "good to go" on the Blue Ridge and in the GSMNP.
    All I really have to do is follow posted signs as to where/where not to carry and be sure to notify upon approach of official with proper ID (not necessary in TN but required in NC).
    "Yes, from TN you are OK, and BTW VA is not a must notify State.

    However, Blue Ridge Parkway - New Firearms Regulations (U.S. National Park Service), has a sort of correct statement that could get someone from GA in trouble, and a few other States, assuming http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/georgia.pdf. is correct.

    A change in federal law effective February 22, allows people who can legally possess firearms under federal, state/commonwealth (North Carolina or Virginia), and local laws to possess those firearms in the Blue Ridge Parkway. The new law (Sec. 512 of P.L. 111-24) was passed by Congress and signed last May by the President.[emphasis added]
    [and note the NPS does not say "in the portion of the the Blue Ridge Parkway located in each respective State.]

    As handgunlaw post that someone from GA can carry in NC and hence the NC portion of the Blue Ridge Parkway, as NC recognizes their GA permit -- however not in the VA (which I read as meaning not in the portion of the the Blue Ridge Parkway located in Virginia also) .

    See: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/georgia.pdf
    Last edited by DaveH; March 30th, 2010 at 06:19 PM.
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  4. #34
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Did you look at the links in my above post, #29? Explain to me how the NPS says I am OK to carry in GSMNP or BRPW in NC when NC does not allow carry in state parks? I think you are referring to the original NPS rule change. State agencies that manage STATE parks have no affiliation with the NPS. The rules are apples and oranges. State no park carry laws apply to state parks only. They don't even apply to local city parks in NC. That is the domain of local Gov. The state does not tell the NPS how to do their business unless you can point me to a specific law that corroborates what you are saying. Then the NPS in GSMNP and BRPW in NC would be wrong.

    Or am I misreading something and there is a relevant issue in your state? Does anyone know of a state that limits carry in all parks. Can state law even supersede federal law in this instance? I really think that this is being made a bigger deal than it really is. You are allowed to carry normally as in any other part of the state under the new law.

    Hmm, no mention of it relying on state park laws here on the NPS press release. I think that would be an important bit of info if it was relevant.

    National Park Service Press Releases

    jem, in NC follow state law and any signs you encounter as you said. Should be good to go. Just make sure you know where you are, state parks and gamelands that are connected to these parks have different rules/laws.
    chiefjason, go back and read the last sentence of my post that you quoted only in part. In fact let me post it again here, so maybe you will read it this time instead of going off half-cocked:

    If a state has a statute or regulation that prohibits carrying a firearm in a STATE park, then you are correct, that statute/regulation would not apply in the National Park, because National Parks are not state parks.


    If you are so quick to jump down someone's throat who is agreeing with you, I would hate to see how you act if they don't.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    My God! Reading this post drives me CRAZY! When will the firearm laws ever get straightened out. It's like a Rubic cube or something..if you do this, then you can't do that, you can open carry, but not concealed, not in OUR parks, you can't do this or that! Feds say yes, state says no, or vis-a-versa.
    Where did we ever let things get so screwed up??!!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    chiefjason,


    If you are so quick to jump down someone's throat who is agreeing with you, I would hate to see how you act if they don't.
    the Chief puts the Lt in his place (but very tactfully)

  7. #37
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    Timely thread. I just visited the Casa Grande Ruins in Coolidge AZ, and noticed the no guns sign on the entrance/gift shop/museum. I wasn’t sure how that applied with the new laws. Apparently No guns in the gift shop/museum, but ok on the outside grounds. I think it would have been hard to get onto the grounds w/o entering thru the museum/gift shop.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    Timely thread. I just visited the Casa Grande Ruins in Coolidge AZ, and noticed the no guns sign on the entrance/gift shop/museum. I wasn’t sure how that applied with the new laws. Apparently No guns in the gift shop/museum, but ok on the outside grounds. I think it would have been hard to get onto the grounds w/o entering thru the museum/gift shop.
    Ditto Jamestown, as I recall.
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  9. #39
    Member Array MikeFontenot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    For example, I was in a national park in Texas just a couple of weeks ago.
    [...]
    They had more officers than I could count, including border patrol, and the radar signs/trailers. They were stopping every single car in both directions, and it was clear as day that their intent was to harass every car over every possible infraction they could come up with.
    This sounds more like pre-war Germany than the USA.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    Let's also keep in mind that it's not just a matter of the official policy. How they interpret and enforce the policy is more important. For example, I was in a national park in Texas just a couple of weeks ago. Not only are they clamping down the speed limit from what would normally be 70mph anywhere else in Texas to 45mph and even 30mph over wide expanses of the Big Bend park, they also offered the wonderful service of a mandatory safety checkpoint. Thank goodness the federal government is so thoughtful to protect our "safety."

    They had more officers than I could count, including border patrol, and the radar signs/trailers. They were stopping every single car in both directions, and it was clear as day that their intent was to harass every car over every possible infraction they could come up with. When they stopped me, they were clearly disappointed they couldn't find any reason to stop and harass me further, until ooooh! lookey here! No seatbelts for passengers in the rear seats! My my my you should have seen the thrill that crucial find was for them!

    Well well well, this gave them justification to run my driver's license and insurance and hang on to me for a few more precious minutes of tyrannical joy! While I waited, I could see them stop other drivers. They looked like they were in a fit of panic desperate to find a reason to harass every single car, which they were already being pretty successful at. They had a whole string of cars they'd pulled out of the line of stopped traffic for further harassment. I saw one of the officers check a driver's registration and inspection stickers three times, almost as if he just couldn't believe he couldn't find something to harass this driver over.

    Now, you might want to ask yourself if these are the kind of "good cops" you're going to feel safe handing over your CHL to so they'll be put on notice you have a great big gun in your car while they're having a near panic attack they can't harass you over a seat belt violation. Despite their official policy, if they find a gun on you in a national park, I suspect you are in for some serious harassment.
    I'm glad you survived such horrific trauma. Hopefully you were not scarred for life! I lived in West Texas for several years and I am glad to see that sort of law enforcement presence on the border. It is where it is needed most. (For those who don't know, Big Bend is locatedon the TX/Mex border)

    Regarding state laws on park carry affecting carry in National Parks: I thought that wording was sticken from the final version so that it would be legal in all National Parks regardless of state law. Perhaps I misunderstood? Carry in National Parks is long overdue, although it is unfortunate there are still so many restrictions attached. It would make it much simpler if the new law stated you could carry anywhere with the confines of any National Park...period. Many parks, such as Big Bend in TX and Organ Pipe in AZ can be extremely dangerous. They are crawling with dope smugglers; dope growers; OMG's; and human smugglers. Not to mention the meth labs. Anybody who believes they don't need their gun in a "protected land" such as a National Park is fooling themselves. The problem is, one of the places you are most likely to get assaulted or robbed in most National Parks are in the restrooms, which seem to still be "off limits". How ridiculous.

    I think everyone on this board understands and acknowledges that the Police Department/Sheriff's Department cannot (and is not required to) protect you in your own home. Imagine how much more that applies in a National Park. There are very law enforcement Rangers and Border Patrol Agents in these parks and they are very spread out (or all busy harassing dldeuce ). You really need to be prepared to defend yourself from just about any threat you might encounter in these places.
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  11. #41
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    Interesting...glad to see this finally go through. Hopefully this law will remain intact for all responsible gun owners.
    funwitHK
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    chiefjason, go back and read the last sentence of my post that you quoted only in part. In fact let me post it again here, so maybe you will read it this time instead of going off half-cocked:

    If a state has a statute or regulation that prohibits carrying a firearm in a STATE park, then you are correct, that statute/regulation would not apply in the National Park, because National Parks are not state parks.


    If you are so quick to jump down someone's throat who is agreeing with you, I would hate to see how you act if they don't.
    My issue was with the part I quoted. I saw what you put, started to change my answer and decided not to. I did add the questions that follow.

    "Or am I misreading something and there is a relevant issue in your state? Does anyone know of a state that limits carry in all parks. Can state law even supersede federal law in this instance? I really think that this is being made a bigger deal than it really is. You are allowed to carry normally as in any other part of the state under the new law."


    If you don't know of one it just seems to confuse an already thoroughly confusing subject. If you do know of one it would be great to know the specific parks we would have issues in.

    You said you agreed with me, and in part you did. But the quote I pulled out runs counter to agreeing with me. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I may have been a little cranky with my last answer. If there is some state out there that has an exception to this NPS rule change I would like to know so I can pass that along if I need to. That's the main issue I would like to figure out.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    I've tried "search" and google and can't find an answer to this. Is a National Wildlife Refuge (such as Okefenokee) the same as a national "park"?
    Forget Google. Start using Bing. It's about ten times better.

    I got sick and tired of every search on google coming up with Amazon and a half dozen other non-helpful sites at the top of the list.

    I've been using bing ever since it came out.



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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Can state law even supersede federal law in this instance? I really think that this is being made a bigger deal than it really is. You are allowed to carry normally as in any other part of the state under the new law."

    ....

    If there is some state out there that has an exception to this NPS rule change I would like to know so I can pass that along if I need to. That's the main issue I would like to figure out.
    Check out Maine. See discussion at Proposal targets gun ban for parks - Bangor Daily News

    Maine thinks they can and NPS has said the could. However, I don't know if they did or no.

    BTW -- it gets even trickier. Acadia NSP and the St. Croix Island International Historic Site are clearly covered as belonging to NPS, however, the Appalachian Trail is administered by the NPS with only those parts actually in National Parks (about 900 of the 2000+ miles)and on a very limit set if right-away bought by the NPS considered NPS land. Much of it passes through State and Local Land and NFS land. The laws and rules of those owners control. See the discussion at Hunting and the A.T. - Appalachian Trail Conservancy
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMack View Post
    Forget Google. Start using Bing. It's about ten times better.

    I got sick and tired of every search on google coming up with Amazon and a half dozen other non-helpful sites at the top of the list.

    I've been using bing ever since it came out.
    Try using the shopping feature on bing to find a firearm...google will give you quite a few options and the most bing will do is find a crimson trace laser grip(if you're lucky)

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