This is a discussion on Signage within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; dru22 has asked a question that gets asked occasionally about "signs". While many states do have specific requirements pertaining to signs, Arkansas does not. As ...
June 2nd, 2006 02:49 PM
dru22 has asked a question that gets asked occasionally about "signs". While many states do have specific requirements pertaining to signs, Arkansas does not. As long as the "intent" is meant, the sign is legally binding.
My take on it as an AR. Instructor and and LEO is this...so Im going to highlight the questions in bold and respond.
I understand the rights/ wishes of the property owner, but if one was to walk past a "no guns" sign, would that be unlawful and grounds for arrest? How do you view the verbage in specifics?
Arkansas code says:
5-73-306. Prohibited places.
(b)(1) In addition to the places enumerated in this section, the carrying of a concealed handgun may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten feet (10') that the "carrying of a handgun is prohibited."
So does it have to say that last 6 words exactly as you read it here?
You'll notice that this code does not specifically address the size of the writing or the quality of the sign. It just says that a written sign must be clear enough to read from 10 feet. This also includes the signs that have no writing but have the common picture of a handgun with a red slash through it.
As long as the owner meets the intent of the law, and the sign can be read by a person of average sight at a distance of 10 feet, it is legally binding.
Be aware of the fact that if you are in shop or household carrying a concealed weapon and the owner has posted a sign prohibiting such, that you are in violation and can be arrested. Act 419 of 1995 (which you should have received a copy of in your class) specifically states that ANY weapons related arrest can be grounds for revocation of your permit.
In reality, if discovered carry in a place that dosent want you carrying,most of the time they'll just ask you to leave and the "law" dosent get involved. If you persist and refuse to leave and they do call the Police, you stand an exellent chance of getting arrested for not only a weapons related infraction, but also for tresspassing as any shop owner can toss you out for any reason he/she deems necessary.
Many states require specific standards on their signs, but Arkansas only requires that it be readable from 10 feet. The words on it or the pictures only have to meet the intent. The opinions presented on this forum may or may not be correct, but remember that those opinoins are irrevelant to the state of Arkansas.
Simply put...DONT DO IT.
There are plenty of other places that could use your money. If a friend of yours posts a note or even asks you not to carry in his house, you should respect them enough to comply.
June 2nd, 2006 03:16 PM
HotGuns, Thank you for taking the time to help clarify this matter. I guess the questions (for me) came along with the quotations, (to me) implying that may be the law-binding verbage.
I know some people read it differently than others, but like you said, the "intent" has been shown clearly. Then there is quesiton of how technical one may get with specifics. I have seen plenty of "No loaded Firearms Beyond this point" signs, say at a pawn shop or something similar. Does that mean technically, if I take the mag (and the one in the pipe) out of the gun and put those in another pocket and still carry, I would be abiding by the wishes of the property owner? Don't get me wrong, I am NOT looking for a way around any law or anything like that, just wanted to throw these concerns and questions out to see what others think and have experienced.
Thank you to all those who replied.
Daily Carry - Glock22 in CTAC
June 2nd, 2006 04:14 PM
Generally, when you see a sign like that it is strictly for safety purposes such as a pawn shop, gunshop or even at the guns shows...with the exception that gunshows dont want ANY live ammunition on your person.
I have seen plenty of "No loaded Firearms Beyond this point" signs, say at a pawn shop or something similar. Does that mean technically, if I take the mag (and the one in the pipe) out of the gun and put those in another pocket and still carry, I would be abiding by the wishes of the property owner?
As long as the gun is not loaded you are good to go. Normally, in a place that deals with guns, its a good safety practice to lock back the slide on your gun, open the cylinder or open the bolt...whatever applies to show that your weapon is "safe" as it removes all doubt.
June 5th, 2006 09:24 AM
B.F., you know whats up in Arkansas. Just watch you back buddy,LOL. Hala at me we need to go shotting.
June 5th, 2006 09:52 AM
Signs mean nothing here except for me to walk in tell them why im not spending money there and leave..
Prime example was home depot they posted a not handguns sign even if you had CCW i went in and complained they said to bad..
Drove the 1/2 mile down to lowes and asked them there policy they said it was cool to pack.. Told manager what HD had told me and went shopping when i left they were putting up signs
CCW permit holds welcome ...lol
took less than a month and Home depot changed there tune
June 5th, 2006 10:53 AM
In MN landlords may not restrict their tenants or guests from lawful carry. However some shopping centers (landlords) have posted “guns banned” signs, and what can the stores (tenants) say? The signs are unenforceable; the first amendment allows anyone to post any kind of sign they want; and if anyone catches you carrying (or picking your nose,) they can ask you to leave. If you don’t leave (read: are dumb enough to stick around until a cop arrives) you can get a $25 ticket on top of a trespassing charge. It won’t look good come permit renewal time. CCRN (see gunthorp.com/links) has an Adobe or Word file for a business card that says “no guns=no $”
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
June 5th, 2006 12:32 PM
It is very simple for me, I Do Not Go Where The Owners Do Not Want Me Carrying a Pistol. The only places I go that I don't carry is Governmental Offices to get my car tags and vote. The rest of the places, I just stay the heck out of. If they loose my money, Xin Loi.
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