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Talking with lawyer beforehand

This is a discussion on Talking with lawyer beforehand within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I pay the guy I use 50$ per year; for that: I get a card that stays in my wallet right behind the carry license; ...

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Thread: Talking with lawyer beforehand

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I pay the guy I use 50$ per year; for that:

    I get a card that stays in my wallet right behind the carry license; it has my Attorneys' name and personal cell phone # on it, 24/7/365. Trust me when I say it is well worth the money spent, especially if you ever had to use it.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry


  2. #17
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    I shoot clays with my attorney, I simply buy him lunch once in awhile and let him beat me in sporting clays every so often, and its all good.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Question: Do you memorize your lawyer's phone number? I'm not sure if any of you have ever been arrested, but they take everything from you. Your wallet, your phone, everything. I'm sure it varies per department/county/state etc etc, but don't expect the police to let you hold onto anything. When you get to use the phone (in the holding cell) you'll be without the information.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I shoot clays with my attorney, I simply buy him lunch once in awhile and let him beat me in sporting clays every so often, and its all good.
    This may be the best idea I have ever heard. To bad I don't shoot clays. I heard the meat is tough and if you boil them long enough you get gravy but it taste like mud.

    OK, I know it's an old joke but it fits here so well!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I shoot clays with my attorney, I simply buy him lunch once in awhile and let him beat me in sporting clays every so often, and its all good.
    Ah ha! So they can be bought off!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  6. #21
    Member Array jbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Question: Do you memorize your lawyer's phone number? I'm not sure if any of you have ever been arrested, but they take everything from you. Your wallet, your phone, everything. I'm sure it varies per department/county/state etc etc, but don't expect the police to let you hold onto anything. When you get to use the phone (in the holding cell) you'll be without the information.
    I certainly agree with the majority here that having a lawyer you can contact is a good idea.

    My question here is if I shot/killed someone in self defense and the facts and circumstances seem reasonable to the responding LEO that that was what actually happened, why would things go any further than having to give a statement (with a lawyer, of course)?

    If they put me in a cell, I would think they would have to charge me with some crime.

    Jim
    "There is no problem that cannot be solved through the proper use of high explosives"
    G. Alan Foster

  7. #22
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    Attorneys

    There is some good info regarding attorneys and also the Armed Citizen Legal Network on this forum, if any one is interested.

    Kyle

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...oundation.html
    Be responsible for your own actions.
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  8. #23
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    My question here is if I shot/killed someone in self defense and the facts and circumstances seem reasonable to the responding LEO that that was what actually happened, why would things go any further than having to give a statement (with a lawyer, of course)?
    This is big stuff: homicide. Doesn't get much bigger. You're being investigated for a homicide. Actually they know you committed the homicide, or will know, so you're being investigated for possible Murder charges.. The LEOs aren't going to decide what comes next. That's up to the DA. And the LEOs may not think what you did is reasonable. Anyway, everyone may but the DA doesn't.

    Perhaps it will go to a Grand Jury. Or has to go to a Grand Jury in your area.

    Maybe it wasn't reasonable. What if you made a mistake? Or it's not clear what happened. Or, Or, Or etc., etc,. A lot of ifs. A lot of unknowns. A lot of potential real bad problems.

    But no ones going to just take a statement, say "OK, No Problem" and send you home.

    You should no more be answering all these questions by LEOs, Prosecutors, Judges, Investigators by yourself than you would do a cardiac operation on yourself with no doctors in attendance handling it.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array SARR001's Avatar
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    I keep the number in my wallet and my head. I run a restaurant and feed a bunch of LEOs. I simply asked them who they would use if they were caught in that situation (they worry about this too). I called one that has represented LEOs and asked for an appointment.
    We discussed my carrying and I discovered he has in fact defended CHL cases before. This meeting was in 1997 and I buy him lunch about every 6 months so he does not forget who I am and I don't get blown off if I make that unfortunate call at 3am. I have his cell and he would be the one to get the call.
    My mother always preached that an ounce of prevention... we carry to prevent bad from happening and I keep this number for the same thing.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

  10. #25
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbailey View Post
    My question here is if I shot/killed someone in self defense and the facts and circumstances seem reasonable to the responding LEO that that was what actually happened, why would things go any further than having to give a statement (with a lawyer, of course)?

    If they put me in a cell, I would think they would have to charge me with some crime.

    Jim
    Jim,

    You are making an assumption that what you said to the responding LEO caused him to conclude that the facts and circumstances seemed reasonable.

    But, the problem is, based on a lot of evidence, that under the kind of stress you are likely to be under after a shooting, you risk saying something that will be prejudicial to your situation.

    Stress causes us to want to talk, run at the mouth, to explain and justify what happened, etc., and in doing so we are likely to say something that can be used against us.

    Best to have an attorney you already met with, not necessary to pay a retainer, have his or her telephone number on your speeed dial, and call them before, I repeat, before you say anything to the LEO.

    If you are confident that you can control what you say, then say only that you were attacked and feared for your life. Point out any witness and evidence and tell the LEO you are happy to cooperate and will make a further statement after you have had an opportunity to consult with your attorney.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  11. #26
    Member Array jbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Jim,

    You are making an assumption that what you said to the responding LEO caused him to conclude that the facts and circumstances seemed reasonable.

    But, the problem is, based on a lot of evidence, that under the kind of stress you are likely to be under after a shooting, you risk saying something that will be prejudicial to your situation.

    Stress causes us to want to talk, run at the mouth, to explain and justify what happened, etc., and in doing so we are likely to say something that can be used against us.

    Best to have an attorney you already met with, not necessary to pay a retainer, have his or her telephone number on your speeed dial, and call them before, I repeat, before you say anything to the LEO.

    If you are confident that you can control what you say, then say only that you were attacked and feared for your life. Point out any witness and evidence and tell the LEO you are happy to cooperate and will make a further statement after you have had an opportunity to consult with your attorney.

    Ron
    I should have carried my statement a bit further I guess. I did state that the statement would be given with a lawyer present. In fact requesting a lawyer should be my first statement. It would certainly not be wise to say much of anything without one. Actually, after a stressful event like this, it often takes two to three sleep cycles (days) before your memory is able to do its best. Possibly your lawyer could ask for the statement to be given the next day, etc.

    No, I don't think the LEO's will say it's OK and let me go home from the scene, but if it was a good shoot, I can't see them putting me behind bars either, if there are no grounds to charge me with immediately. Of course there will be an investigation, and the possibility of civil suit from deceased's family, etc.

    Jim
    "There is no problem that cannot be solved through the proper use of high explosives"
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    Lawyer Retainer Fees

    yo ho ho and a bottle of rum
    Interesting that this referral is from a guy in Richmond, because in Virginia, what the guy said in the website is just plain wrong.

    A "retainer" is a payment of a fixed amount of money payable on a periodic basis, purely to make the attorney "your" lawyer, and, at the same time, to make that attorney unavailable to others having interests adverse to yours. It is earned when paid, and becomes the attorney's money immediately. It is not a payment for services, and only functions to "retain" the attorney.

    An advance against costs and fees, on the other hand, is a payment made up front which is the client's money given into the possession of the attorney as a fiduciary for the client. It does not become the attorney's money unless and until he does work or incurs expenses and bills against it. Any amounts remaining over and above the total amount of fees and expenses remains the client's money and must be refunded to the client. Such money has to be kept in a special bank account called an "escrow" or "trust" account, in which the attorney is prohibited from keeping his own money.

    Most attorneys do not charge retainers. I certainly don't. I bill by the hour, and I generally want a minimum of two thousand bucks or more in the trust account, depending on what kind of case I'm working on. But I don't ask for money unless and until I have some work to do.

    That said, on to the original question. The answer is, "yes". Most attorneys won't charge you for talking to them (when's the last time you had to pay somebody for the opportunity to interview them to see if you wanted to hire them?). And it's best to pick your lawyer before you have a problem - you won't have the time or the mental ability when you're in panic mode because you've been slammed in jail to interview lawyers. Lawyers, like every other group of humans, fall into one of three classes: some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average. Find one who's really good, and find him now. Ask friends and relatives what lawyers they used and what they thought of 'em. Then call those lawyers and ask them whom they'd recommend who's really good in the area of law you want to be protected in (E.g., "criminal defense attorneys who have a lot of experience with gun related law"). When you find that person, get a few of his cards. One to pass off to someone else who'll need a referral someday, one to keep in the glove box of the car, and one to keep in the wallet.

    Now for the marketing blurb: I'm licensed in Virginia, and am admitted to practice in the Supreme Courts of Virginia and the United States, all circuit and district courts in Virginia, the U.S. Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, and all federal courts in the Eastern District of Virginia. I'm also an NRA certified firearms instructor, and I do seminars on firearms law for Virginia residents. My area of practice is limited to defensive litigation, both civil and criminal. I've been doing that now for more than twenty years. And I welcome calls from people who want to set up a relationship with an attorney who can help them in a pinch. The website address with phone number and such is below, or click on the "user" name to look at the public profile or to send email.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #28
    GM
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I shoot clays with my attorney, I simply buy him lunch once in awhile and let him beat me in sporting clays every so often, and its all good.
    That sounds like a very good idea! Thank you for the advice SIXTO, I will give it a try.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  14. #29
    Member Array ZRow1's Avatar
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    No need to know them first, just know how to contact them. I am very lucky that my 2A friendly lawyer is also my son and yes, he carries also.
    Kholster/Glock 17/Rugar SR9c/Bersa 380CC/Ruger LCR/SW 624/ SW 629
    Doublestar Star 15 M4 5.56 / Mossberg 500 Tactical Persuader

    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defense; I call it intelligence
    Malcolm X

  15. #30
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    This may be a good idea if you rarely travel with your ccw.

    I travel widely and carry everywhere I can legally. If I am unfortunately involved in a SD shooting, I want the best LOCAL defense lawyer available. It's not possible for me to interview a solid attorney in every area I visit, travel, live, and carry. Besides, who knows if the attorney will even be practicing when I need them? They may have retired, moved, or changed profession.

    I will initially contact my local attorney (I have one), but he is going to earn a fee helping me find the one best attorney suited for the case. My regular attorney has already directed me to a specialized attorney who got a serious speeding violation thrown out for me. He said this guy was the best for the kind of case I had. It turns out he was the brother-in-law of the local DA where the traffic violation occurred. Funny, that.

    You will need someone familiar with the judges, local issues, and is tied into the community where the incident took place. Wherever that was.

    It will undoubtedly help you to talk to a defense attorney to clarify your understanding of the legal nuances of a SD shooting. I recommend it. However, if you one day need a defense attorney, the best guy at that time and place may not be the guy you interviewed.

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